How Alex Sheen’s ‘Because I Said I Would’ Sparked 15 Million Promises With Integrity

In this episode of After Peter Pan, host Pat Tenneriello sits down with Alex Sheen, founder of Because I Said I Would, a nonprofit that has inspired over 15 million people to keep their promises. Alex shares the pivotal moment of watching his father pass away from stage four small cell lung cancer and witnessing some of the the regrets he carried. That loss became the catalyst for the promise card, a simple tool for accountability that spread worldwide. Pat and Alex explore how grief can clarify your priorities, why integrity is built on follow-through, and the sacrifices, self-control, and resilience required to live with purpose.

What You'll Learn:

• How personal tragedy can inspire a global movement.
• Why keeping promises builds trust and personal credibility.
• The origins and impact of the Because I Said I Would promise card.
• How self-control and sacrifice shape long-term character.
• Practical steps to build resilience in everyday life.
• The ripple effect of integrity across relationships and communities.
• How action — not confidence — creates meaningful change.

Social Media Links:

• After Peter Pan Podcast: 
  • Facebook
  • Instagram
  • LinkedIn
  • YouTube
• Alex Sheen:
  • Alex's non-profit - Because I said I would
  • Camp Because I Said I Would
  • Become a volunteer
  • Sponsor a grieving family
  • Promise cards
  • LinkedIn

Chapters

• 0:00 Hook & Intro
• 1:10 Pat’s Personal Connection to Because I Said I Would
• 2:27 The Challenges and Rewards of Running a Nonprofit
• 4:36 Finding Purpose in the Face of Loss
• 6:46 The Origin Story of Because I Said I Would
• 10:12 Why the Promise Card Resonates Globally
• 12:58 The Role of Vulnerability in Connection
• 13:40 Confronting Mortality and Prioritizing Life
• 17:06 Reframing Relationships with Parents
• 19:12 Cognitive Reframing for Resilience
• 21:41 Balancing Optimism and Pessimism
• 23:46 Defining Integrity and Personal Values
• 30:03 Strategies for Building Self-Control
• 35:06 Balancing Self-Control and Self-Care
• 38:02 The Most Impactful Story: Garth’s Napkin Notes
• 41:24 Balancing Confidence and Humility
• 45:09 Overcoming Lack of Confidence Through Sacrifice
• 47:30 Aligning Career and Impact
• 52:12 How to Get Involved with Because I Said I Would
• 53:25 What Growing Up Means to Alex
• 54:53 Sacrifice vs. Suffering
• 57:29 lex’s Self-Taught Journey and Research-Based Approach
• 1:01:20 Closing Gratitude, Call to Action, and Outro

Transcript

Alex (00:02)
People who work in charity have something that is coveted and that is a sense of purpose. watched my father pass away of stage four small cell lung cancer and I saw the regret.

in his face and his tone on things that he wished he would have done, and I know that the money that he made his career just didn't mean anything to him when he passed.

Pat Tenneriello (00:29)
Hi, and welcome to After Peter Pan, the podcast all about growing up and finding more purpose. I'm your host Pat Tenerello. In this episode, I'm super excited to speak with Alex Sheen, the founder of Because I Said I Would, a nonprofit I've been following for over 10 years. What began as a simple promise card that he came up with at his father's eulogy has grown into a global movement, inspiring over 15 million people to keep their promises.

In this conversation, Alex and I talk about the power of integrity, the value of sacrifice, and practical ways to build resilience and self-control. We explore ways to define your own personal code of conduct and why promises may be your greatest legacy. Enjoy the episode.

Alex (01:10)
I see that shirt there. I like that.

Pat Tenneriello (01:13)
That's right. I

I thought it'd be fun to start with that. So what you're looking at there is a picture of me. it's dated August, I think it's August 18th, 2014. I was living in Boston and, I had come across a news, a news article or news video of what you were doing and it resonated with I picked up the t-shirt and ordered.

10 promise cards at the time I wasn't in a place to make very profound promises. was still very much in Peter Pan pleasure mode, but, nonetheless, the message resonated with me. So I just thought I'd start with that and, and also start by saying, thank you for what you do. You know, it's very inspiring what you do.

Alex (01:47)
Mm-hmm.

Pat Tenneriello (01:58)
selfless, impactful, meaningful, simple yet profound. And I know it's grown into so much more than just the promise cards, but, I was digging into your story and listening to some of your Ted talks, I just get shivers by the impact that you have on the world. And, it inspires people like me.

to make changes in my own life, to aim up, try and be a better version of myself. And so what you do really, really matters. And I just thought I'd start by thanking you.

Alex (02:27)
Well, I appreciate it, Pat, because it's been a long run with the charity. And there are lot of days where anyone in nonprofits is certainly not unique to me, where you just kind of stare at the ceiling at night, you know, and it's just like the emotional weight of it, the hours. As you may know, like 100 % of my speaking fees and everything go to the charity. So like

I make as much as a high school teacher, so it's not money. And even when you're helping others, there's a point where you just kind of grind it down over time. And you say to yourself, well, I've done enough. Look, look, it's just like a whole decade. Some people don't even, 75.1 % of Americans don't volunteer a single hour in an entire year. You've put in your time. And let's pack this up.

But I can't do that. That's a hard path. I'm not doing that. So the fact that folks like you, since 2014 to this day, even still care to not have deleted that picture, to reach out, to talk more, it means a lot to us. Because the last thing I'll say on that thought is, a lot of things go viral and just, I don't know, die 15 minutes later.

Pat Tenneriello (03:28)
What keeps you going?

Alex (03:50)
You know, to stick around for 12 years in any format is tough. And we've been through a lot of adversity as a charity, but we're here because people like you, you know, stuck with us. So thank you.

Pat Tenneriello (04:06)
I'm glad to hear that. What, what keeps you going? You know, you're right. You have done it enough. Some people might view it that way. You're obviously choosing to continue and you're sacrificing because someone who has built what you've built, clearly could, could, or do have the skills to go and do something in the for-profit world, to build something that could make you a whole lot richer or a whole lot more powerful or whatever it is that you might be after, but you choose to give back.

keeps you going?

Alex (04:36)
Yeah, well, let's even take the format that we're in right now, right? In a podcast, let's talk about social media and influencers, right? And that that thought of of reach you in front of groups, know, you know, keynotes and stuff like that. So you eventually get an opportunity to speak to foreign dignitaries and presidents and billionaires and all kinds of weird situations and.

who work in charity have something that is coveted and that is a sense of purpose. The thought that I wake up every day, no matter how difficult my job is, I can at least say to myself, at least it's for something. And I watched my father pass away of stage four small cell lung cancer and I saw the regret.

in his face and his tone on things that he wished he would have done, you know, differently. Not everything is a Hallmark movie, right? Like we have regrets, we have different paths and choices that we like to change. for him, that couldn't happen. And I saw that and I took that in and I know that the money that he made in his career just didn't mean anything to him when he passed.

The other part is I we have a 92 acre camp and retreat center that helps grieving families. I work with people who have lost loved ones in very tragic ways. And so that's just like a constant reminder of the value of life and the purpose of life. So ⁓ I actually don't feel like it is a sacrifice and stuff. I would like some more shiny things and some time off like anybody would, I guess. But it just doesn't actually feel

Pat Tenneriello (06:10)
you

Alex (06:24)
like that much of a sacrifice on most days, you know, because I've been on the other side, you know, I've been to that, that spot where, you know, you're, you're getting huge bonuses and,

you know, cause I work for enterprise software company and all, you know, all that kind of stuff. And it's fun, but there's just, it's just not the same, you know.

Pat Tenneriello (06:46)
Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah, let's, let's dig into that a little bit. So you, you went from eulogizing your father to starting a global movement. If I, if I got that right, that leap, like how did that take place?

Alex (07:02)
Yeah, yeah, you know, my dad came to the United States in 1974 by himself, you know, he was 17. And, you know, being an immigrant in a new place is tough, right? Especially back then, people call you names, you know, develop some pretty tough skin if you want to want to get by. And and so he developed this resiliency, not only through that experience, but his poverty and just like, you know, just trying to make it through life. So as time progressed, and you know,

You know, I would come into existence, my brother, if he said he was going to be there for you, he just showed up. My dad had this disconnect. With preferences that was unique, like whether he wanted to do it or not, whether it was raining or he just wasn't feeling it or he had a 12 hour shift at the hospital or whatever, kind of just didn't matter. It was like I said I was going to do this. It's the right thing to do. And so I'll see you there at eight. You know, and he would just show up.

So when my father was diagnosed with stage four small cell lung cancer, you know, as as his passing would be imminent, I was asked by my family to give his eulogy. And, you know, I could imagine been to a funeral, you know, it's of course an intensely emotional, sad day. But then there's this thing for some people where folks just kind of.

move on, you know, and whether it's because we live in a death avoidant society that doesn't talk about loss or genuinely, you know, you just kind of move on with life. The thought that people were just going to move on, that my dad was just some sad day that we dressed up, that we just all moved on. You know, for me in that intense moment of grief, I just didn't, I just couldn't deal with it. Right. And so I was like, well, I got to do something in zoology that is practical.

something that is useful. So I created this one cent piece of paper, it just says, because I said I would in the corner, you write a promise on the card, you give it to the person you're making that commitment to, you tell them, when I fulfill this promise, I earn this card back. It is my property. I am coming back for this. You fulfill your promise and you keep it as a reminder that you're a person of your word. And so in doing that, I was just trying to say goodbye to my dad. His funeral ends, I go home.

And the real culprit in this whole challenge that would blow up to over 15 million promise cards distributed around the world is Reddit. I made a post to Reddit and it and back then social media was a little different 12 years ago. So getting like 250,000 views in a day was a lot. Today it's not. But back then it was like a little wild.

and then millions of views and Good Morning America and the Today Show and Ted Talks and all these things. But it all started from this card that was just trying to echo a value that my father lived by, you know, being a person of your word.

Pat Tenneriello (10:12)
did you ever imagine the idea would resonate at such a massive scale? And what do you think keeps it resonating after so much time?

Alex (10:23)
I think it's almost biological. Like I think I tripped over something by luck. So if you take a human being, you put them in an MRI machine and you start asking them questions about the future, the frontal lobe of their brain will start to light up. Now, do we understand exactly what's going on there? Not entirely. Right. But we, we know just by kind of a simple test is like, okay, the frontal lobe must be responsible for this executive function of

future planning, right? Well, that's interesting because as human beings, we are one of the only organisms that truly understand and can fully grasp that there is even a future. Now that sounds strange, but like most organisms don't know that there is a future. Like it's a concept that they, they certainly don't have a grip on as much as we do.

In fact, even when you study squirrels or bears, hibernation habits, it's almost a knee-jerk reaction. It's just a reflex that they're doing certain activities. It's possible that cognitively they don't truly understand that time is on a line and we're progressing across it, et cetera, et cetera. So because of our ability to frame and understand the future, we have human civilization.

talking through technology right now. We can plan our resources and build and all these great things. But oh, what a burden because ever since we're little kids, five years old, going to the school for the first time, we're like, OK, well, what am I going to wear? What are they going to say about me? And I got to do good in middle school on the sports team because then maybe I'll get a scholarship in college and I got to pay how much for a mortgage. And when do I have to give it like our capacity to think about and plan for the future?

is like this panic attack, you know, this anxiety, but somewhere, Pat along the way, someone comes to you and says, you know, I can't predict everything, but four o'clock Thursday, as sure as the sun will rise that day, you are going to see me and I'm going to take care of this. It like washes over us biologically almost like that thing that we're just kind of constantly worried about. like just one thing I can count on in an uncertain world.

And so when you ask that question, why do you think this resonated or

Pat Tenneriello (12:42)
.

Alex (12:44)
kind of like why it blew up? I would love to say, I'm clever or, you know, the card is like a genius. I think it's like coded in us in some way, shape or form on sort of how we. Process future and worry.

Pat Tenneriello (12:58)
I also think that the fact that what you do is grounded in a very vulnerable moment in your life that people can connect with, right? Like, I feel like when we think about our lives, losing a parent it's one of those moments in your life that you, you refer to it in the way that you talk about your life. So you say, before my father passed away, that so and so after my father passed, like you use it as a really a.

Alex (13:23)
measure of

time.

Pat Tenneriello (13:24)
Yeah, and so I wonder if part of it too is just that human element of sharing something incredibly vulnerable, a moment of suffering, of pain, of sadness and the way that you were able to turn that into something incredibly powerful.

Alex (13:40)
If you ask your podcast listeners, you know, thought like, is, what was the saddest day of your whole life? There's a pretty good chance that it was the loss of a loved one, you know? And, and in that we not only feel the sorrow, sadness, depression, all kinds, regret, all kinds of intense emotions, but we also feel this connection to time, you know, that

We kind of are disassociated with. we're just, you know, we're just busy. There's so much going on. Bills to pay, technology is constant. Scrolling on my phone, just like, you're kind of so distracted by just getting through the day that like we just forget like this is gonna end. We truly, if you zoomed out, almost like an alien was watching the world, they'd be like, these people are acting like they're gonna live forever. Isn't that weird? Like they're not.

Almost all of them are just like, like it's never going to end. And, and then that day when you find yourself in grief and bereavement, you know, you, your mortality is put in check, thus pushing over a domino for you to be required to think about your priorities. You know, it just like, pushes over a sequence of thoughts that are pretty heavy. And that's what happened to me, you my

When I was a little kid, my dad or all of his friends, my aunts and everything, like you look just like your dad when you look just like him. You just look like you look just like him. And I was like, I hope not, because that dude is not that handsome. you know, like I didn't think my dad was good looking and I looked like just like him. So that was like regrettable. But what I'm trying to say, though, is that like when he did come to his last days, I he got

Pat Tenneriello (15:22)
Hehehe

Alex (15:35)
He got skinnier, right, because of chemotherapy and the loss of like, you know, he 50 pounds or more or whatever the number was. I'm actually thinking about about 70 pounds before he passed. And at some point, you know, he got just in this way, I could start to see myself in him. You know, I was like, you know, you know, people say like, oh, that person looks like you, you're just like, no, they don't, because you're just too familiar with how you look to be able to acknowledge that.

So when it crosses this threshold, it's like, no, I do look like that person. I came to this moment where I'm like, ⁓ I'm going to leave this world too. And if I live as long as my dad has, I'm well over halfway. I only got a set of years left, you know? And so that just pushes a lot of buttons inside of us. And that might seem morbid. It might seem too heavy. I don't know how it comes across because I

I work in bereavement, but I think it's like makes every day a little sweeter, you know, makes it just like you appreciate things more. If you can digest that in a healthy way, you prioritize a little bit better. You're a little less likely to kind of fly off the handle and anger because you're like, this doesn't matter. You know, you have this a little bit better of a compass when you think about death constantly.

And I feel some

Pat Tenneriello (17:04)
you

Alex (17:04)
of that.

Pat Tenneriello (17:06)
Yeah, I completely agree that death helps to put us put perspective to our lives and kind of take a step back from the day to day things that tend to consume us. The other thing that comes to mind as I hear you talk about your dad is,

I can be very hard on my parents I think. My parents are by no means perfect. They did the best job that they could. I think they did a pretty darn good job and I'm grateful for that. But nonetheless, I feel like I can find myself, I can feel irritated or irritable around them. I feel like what is most irritable when I'm with my parents

is their weaknesses is to recognize that, that they are human and have faults. And now that I'm a father of my own, realize like, I don't have all the answers, mistakes are going to happen, you know? And, but to hear you talk about your dad, certainly, you know, the relationship maybe wasn't always perfect. He certainly had his weaknesses, but it's like, you've put things in perspective and really kind of like,

found the essence of what it is that was special and unique about your dad and that really resonates with me and it makes me question and reflect on my relationship with my parents.

Alex (18:14)
Yeah, I don't think this is certainly me, but it's like, I don't know how much I'm actively thinking, you know, versus like reacting. Obviously, I'm reacting all day long to things around me and, and, almost, it almost seems like I'm thinking, right? Because clearly articulating sentences, putting together plans, right? But I don't know how much I'm truly contemplating

my existence, you know, and you almost have to like just purposefully try to do that because we're just in the rat race of keeping our head above water that understandably it's just like, well, I just got to get through the day or through this month or through this project or whatever it is. And then we just do that for decades and we call that a life. But when you lose someone, it's like you're forced into that room.

Pat Tenneriello (18:52)
.

Alex (19:12)
And with your thoughts and I think that if we could intentionally try to step into into that thought of mortality, the use of my time, these relationships, we would become sort of more patient and appreciative. So one of my favorite resiliency skills is cognitive reframing. It's like a psychology 101 thing. I didn't make it up. It's super basic. But this concept of saying to yourself, I don't have to I get to right like

Four in the morning, my dog puts both of his paws on my chest. He licks my face while I'm dead asleep. And I say to myself, oh, I have to do this. I have to let him out. have to, I have to go to work. have to, all these things I have to do. It's like, no, I don't have to do that. You know, 2020, I had a dog named Kimchoo for 14 years and she was the center of my universe. And she passed away. The fortune I would give to you to

let her out one more time for just five more minutes. I don't have to let these dogs out. I get to. I live in a house that even allows dogs. I don't have to call my grandparents. I still have grandparents to call. I don't have to go to work. There's a lot of people who wish they were gainfully employed. know, like there's I don't have to do these these things. But I feel like if I don't force myself into that level of contemplation, I don't have to. get to like you almost have to create a habit of it because it doesn't happen on accident.

It doesn't just happen. What happens on accident is, I don't want to do this, you know? And a lot of sort of negative thinking and dwelling. So we need reminders of that kind of contemplation needs to take place. So that's not earth shattering or anything, but I just don't know how much we're really thinking through the day.

Pat Tenneriello (20:56)
That small switch from I have to, to I get to is so powerful. really, that really resonates with me. And the other thing that you said about, you don't really, you know, you don't find yourself thinking so much, you're just doing. Someone who.

Well, everyone, know, we, constantly were, you know, we're thinking about things we might do or should do or shouldn't do or wish we had or hadn't done. And, often. doesn't translate to action. And I was listening to one of the things you, one of your talks and you said something like, get out there and do something. Don't wait for good things to happen. This way you fill yourself with optimism or the pessimists could still, you know, produce something that's of value.

That really resonated with me as well.

Alex (21:41)
Yeah, there's a whole quote, the ⁓ optimist invents the airplane, the pessimist invents the parachute, you know? And you're trying to find a balance in life where we don't overwhelm ourselves with negative thinking. Again, it's something that is a developed skill of sorts. So even thinking about the origin of negative thought, like, why are people so negative?

If we flashback thousands of years as a tribal species, right? know, Pat, you and I are out in the woods with a dozen or a hundred people, whatever. We're just scraping to get by. We've got very basic tools as this tribal species. Well, those negative thoughts keep you safe. Don't go. You can't go out in the dark. You could trip, fall. You're like, we don't don't eat that berry. Like, I know it looks appetizing, but like that could be poisoned. Don't talk to those people.

Pat Tenneriello (22:17)
.

Alex (22:30)
They could help us or they could hurt us, right? Like negative thinking is a requisite for survival. You you must think everything is going to hurt you, that

everything is going to fail, break, fall on you, etc. Like it's that's what and so it makes sense that we have all those negative thoughts and that pessimism. But at the same time, it might be 2025 right now.

Pat Tenneriello (22:48)
you

Alex (23:00)
Right? It might be a reality that a lot of those psychological safeguards and that critical thinking process no longer applies to the civilization that we live in. Right? But we still have those negative thinking patterns.

So like one of the workshops that we work in with in schools and prisons in our 92 acre camp as a charity, you know, four types of negative thinking, right? Catastrophizing, focusing on the negative, negative self labeling, all or nothing thinking. Like if we can identify why these

thought patterns exist, that they do exist. It's not like you can always stop them, but just some self-awareness that this is what's happening can kind of just jolt you back to a more objective reality than your negative thoughts would suggest automatically.

Pat Tenneriello (23:46)
In what you do with the promise cards and some of these other workshops, the theme that really resonated with me was integrity. Integrity is a word that has deep meaning to me. was kind of the word that I latched onto when I was going through a program called Men in Healing six years ago for childhood trauma.

survivors and really helped me to kind of frame my day to day behaviors, being at odds with my values, and not living a life of integrity on your website. And in what you do, you guys use words like accountability. and so I, I wanted to dive into that a little bit more with you, like accountability, integrity. What, does that mean to you now after more than a decade of this work and

Has that definition evolved for you?

Alex (24:32)
Yeah, so...

There's a gold quote, and I'm actually, I'm probably modifying it a little bit for the sake of this conversation. Cause my memory doesn't serve me well, it's like, like more people would live by their values if they knew what they were, you know, like it sounds kind of bizarre, but walk down the street, ask, you know, five random people, top three values to live by go.

Like how do you make decisions? Like the values make decisions about go, right? Like most people would be like, like, compassion. Yep. and, ⁓ honesty, ⁓ also, you know what saying? Like, I'm not saying that that isn't in their thought process, but you know how many people would take for you to run across someone who says, ⁓ yeah, Kodo honor, self-control, accountability, sacrifice that like, really have that.

Pat Tenneriello (25:14)
you

.

Alex (25:29)
that code of honor, that value system memorized, it's just be so few people. And that is, I think, a really important part of trying to live by your values is being able to recite what they are in a memorized fashion. Because if I went to a scientist and I said, OK, you're trying to make

a decision, a scientific discovery, whatever, how do you go through that process? They would say, oh, Alex, come on.

You were taught it in the fourth grade. It's called the scientific method, right? You go through these seven steps and on the other side of that, if you go through these steps, you're more likely to come out with more, you know, scientific and possibly true conclusion. Well, why don't we take that thought when it comes to the integrity in our own lives, the decision in our own lives, the character choices that we make saying to ourselves, OK, am I being honest right now?

Pat Tenneriello (26:10)
you

Alex (26:28)
Am I using my self control? Am I holding myself accountable? Like, what are those three, five or seven words, whatever it is, I'm not even telling you how to live your life to that level. You choose the words for yourself. But I feel like it makes life easier when we have that filter of integrity, those values memorized, because even when you fail, at least you can look yourself in the mirror and say, you know, this was an knee jerk reaction.

I didn't just do this because of the way I was feeling that day. I put this through the filter. I did the best I could with what I had. And maybe I made a mistake, but this was not an accident. I tried. there's something comforting about that. There's something sort of useful to it from a mental health perspective even, because we're all going to make mistakes.

can't predict the future all the time and things happen. yeah, integrity is a big word for me, but even look up the definition of integrity itself in like Miramar's prediction area. It's like, it's what's held in high regard. ⁓ and, but, what is that? This is still like, it's sort of like a framing of a word, but you still need to put things in there of like, what does integrity mean? There's also a version of the, the word that's, ⁓ speaking about honesty and

and living true to a value, but again, what is that value? Anyways, I like to ramble.

Pat Tenneriello (27:56)
No, that's really interesting because companies will take the time with their teams to come up with mission statements and corporate core values and

and so on and then print them and put them on the wall so everyone can see them. But as an individual, don't know that we take the time to do something like that. But I can certainly see the value in doing so. And I wonder if there are resources available to do something like that. In my case, at least in the beginning, it was my conscience, right? Like maybe I couldn't, I didn't have a map or a list or hadn't thought that through the way that you're describing, but

Alex (28:26)
Mm-hmm.

Pat Tenneriello (28:32)
I had, my conscience told me when I was behaving well or not, and I can try and bury it, but you know, that guilt or that, you know, that would come up, it would come up for me. So at least I had that. What you're saying though is it's, it's beyond conscience. Yeah.

Alex (28:48)
that. Yeah,

take take that in the best moments of your conscious of of having those ethical moments, right? Just take those and put it into simple words. And I actually don't like just words. I like a question, like not just honesty, but am I being honest? Or, or what have you like a question just challenges us to critical thought a little bit more. So it's kind of the same thing.

But it's exactly what you're already doing as a reaction, but just trying to codify into a system, into a process that's more consistent because we're just so up and down our emotions are just like, if we truly were living with that conscious, then, then we would be more, I think it would be more consistent, but the truth, like it seems like either that is changing enough day by day that we're not living.

Pat Tenneriello (29:20)
you

Alex (29:43)
You know, truly to a standard or we just lack self control to live by that standard, which is actually more understandable. But I, I think about the comments you made like your dad, right? It's like, if you had to choose a code of honor for your, how many kids do you have? Pat one. And how old are they?

Pat Tenneriello (30:00)
One. He's two.

Alex (30:03)
Two. Yeah. So what one day.

as he grows up, like what is the filter you want for him? Now he's gonna have to live his own life obviously, but like if he came to any difficult decision, like he was about to drink and drive, right? Or he's about to hit a person or whether to defend himself or somebody else, like think about whatever moral conflict, like what would be that set of questions that you would ask oneself? And we would be so proud.

of our

Pat Tenneriello (30:37)
Okay.

On the topic of self control, that's one that a lot of people struggle with. I'm getting better, but I still struggle. still have relapses. I'm aiming up, I'm trying to be the best version, but I take a step back and I relapse. And so there anything you can share that would help people who struggle with self control?

Alex (31:17)
Yeah, the first thing is to think of self-control not as a monolith, not as a single thing, because, know, you got, you know, again, dictionary stuff, blah, blah, self-controlling, you know, is just one entry. But some psychologists think that maybe there's four types of self-control. Right. So the self-control physical movement, right. Getting, you know, just literally running around doing errands, exercising, you know, movement, physical movement, then the self-control of impulse. Right. So this is

More of those addictive moments and I don't mean just substance abuse. could be a lot of things doom scrolling at night, whatever. You just can't stop yourself from these like immediate actions of impulse. Then you have the self control of emotion. Can you push yourself from a point of sadness to happiness to seriousness to whatever? Like are you able to to get your emotions aligned at will?

and then the self-control of concentration. Can you just sit there at a desk and just kind of grind this out? Can you just keep doing something in almost a repetitive type of way? So the first thing I would say about self-control is to kind of think about it in these four profiles. And you can always go to becauseofcenterwould.org. All the programming from our charity and these videos and things like that on these Resiliency Skills are available under the Resources tab. everything's free, obviously.

You know, the first thing is like, which ones are you good at? Which ones are you bad at? OK, that's that's great. And we could we could talk about tactics in each one of those areas. But what I would say, Pat, is like, how do you avoid self-control entirely? Meaning you're going to run out. The tank is going to be empty one day. And even if it is the type of self-control you excel at, there's just going to be a day where you don't have it in you. So there's a strategy called pre-commitment.

Pat Tenneriello (33:00)
you

Alex (33:07)
Again, just kind of a basic psychology thing. But pre-commitment is taking action into the present that prevents you from doing something in the future. So a simple example for me, know, I travel a lot for the nature of my work and I'll go to a Mexican restaurant anywhere in the United States.

What do they put in front of you immediately? Right before you even sit down, right? Though they're hot and fresh, Pat and and

Pat Tenneriello (33:30)
the chips

the

Alex (33:35)
I know that that's 850 calories. know like I have a whole meal coming and so I don't need to be eating all these chips, but you leave those things in front of me. I might eat every single one

all by myself. So I know I just don't have that self control. So what pre-commitment as a tactic would suggest is saying to the waiter or waitress, Hey, you know, actually I'm going to pass on those chips, you know, and they're going to say to you, what are, what are you new to this country or something? Like these are free, dude. You just have them. And then

Pat Tenneriello (33:58)
You

Alex (34:04)
I say,

nah, I'm okay. I'm gonna pass. And they're like, okay, whatever, weirdo. And they take the chips. But what am I trying to do there? I'm trying to take an action in the present that makes it harder to break a promise in the future. In this case, not eating all these chips. So there's a lot of different ways to do that. if you have a gambling addiction, you can go into a casino and ban yourself. You can literally say, this is my ID. Never let me in here ever again. They will ban you. If you...

are in over eaters anonymous. They suggest if you're passing through a corridor of like six fast food restaurants, right on your way home from work, just literally go the long, go the long route, right? Like don't even test yourself control or doom scrolling at night. Plug your phone in across the room, you know, from your bed, cause you know, you're too lazy to get up and go over there and listen to these dings and just like, you know, just like make it harder to even need self control.

And that's what pre-commitment is. So, you know, there's a lot of, a lot of tactics on, self-control, those are a couple of thoughts.

Pat Tenneriello (35:06)
one thing that I find helpful is if I have done something for myself that was, that shows self control, I'll reward myself. And that reward may be somewhat contrary to my aim, but it's like, okay, I did, you know, four things today that, you know, I, that were on my list. didn't falter. Now I'm going to reward myself with this ice cream. it, let's say if it's for diet, you know, that what's your view on.

Alex (35:22)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Sure.

Pat Tenneriello (35:33)
I'm not being a bully to yourself, you know, and to reward yourself.

Alex (35:35)
Yeah, you know,

like I said before, sun's going to set on us all one day. We ain't living forever. So I'm not adverse to this thought of like some sort of balance. Now, I will say, and I feel pretty strongly about this is like this whole movement of self care. Obviously, we believe in self care. We're literally an organization about like mental health habits and stuff. Right. So self care is needed. A real thing, et cetera.

But feel like maybe it's just the application of how it's being said or demonstrated in social media. It's like like selfishness is self care at some point, you know. And and so it's hard to say exactly where that line starts and stops. And and and I don't want to be too rough on on people or the concept. But there's a limit here, you know, to how how much we treat ourselves kind of thing. And I feel like we sometimes take it overboard a bit.

that actually makes us a little bit less resilient, right? We treat ourselves so much that it's like, well, I can't do something that's difficult unless there is some carrot attached to it. That becomes a standard when we try to balance the equation too much.

Pat Tenneriello (36:39)
Okay.

Alex (36:49)
But like I go back to what my dad did and how he lived, it just genuinely didn't need to feel happy. Didn't need

to be like, ⁓ there's something in this for me. That's why he was so good at keeping his promises. It was just like, this is the right thing to do. There is there is no ice cream at the end of this. I'm cool with that. You know, I'm I'm trying to live by a standard. And that alone feels pretty decent, you know, in a life where a lot of people don't. So yes, slippery slope. Again, not a hot take or anything like that. But overall,

I'm not opposed to that balance at all. I feel like people are pretty hard on themselves in many cases.

Pat Tenneriello (37:36)
You know, you've given thousands of workshops and speeches in front of huge audiences and I'd be curious to hear like which story or moment kind of hits people the hardest every time. Like, you know, you can, if you need to close and go out with a bang, like you're gonna introduce this and it just, you know, you can hear a pin drop. I'm curious, like what sort of, what typically is that?

Alex (38:02)
Yeah, there's a there's a story about a dad who lived outside of Richmond, Virginia. about 48 years old in this story. He's got one daughter. Her name's Emma. And when Emma was in the second grade, he started writing napkin notes for her lunchbox. Right. So you can imagine when your two year old gets old enough inspirational quote or some kind of cheesy dad nonsense. Right. But just, you know, yesterday's home runs don't win today's games. Babe Ruth. Yeah.

written on a napkin. these types of things, Garth would just write every day. And when I say every day, I'm trying to be as literal as I can. Like, he'd just write them every day from second grade to the eighth grade. Well, a day rolls around where Garth is in a small white room. He's talking to a doctor.

And he's told that he has a 8 % chance of living past five years because he's been diagnosed with stage four cancer of the kidney.

Pat Tenneriello (39:00)
Okay.

Alex (39:01)
He reflects on a lot of thoughts that we've talked about already, right? Mortality time, you know, what am I going to do with what I got left and all the classic things that are understandable to process. He thinks about his daughter and he decides to write a promise card. He writes, I will write 826 napkin notes for Emma, which is the exact number of days of class Emma has left until she graduates from high

school. So that no matter when he dies.

All 826 of those notes are ready to be given one every day until she walks across that so over the course of the last 12 years, you just have millions and millions and millions of these cards distributed out there because, you know, we're all fighting the good fight on some kind of goal. We all make mistakes and it resonates with us because not only are we

Pat Tenneriello (39:39)
you

Alex (39:53)
going through that, but every book we've ever read, every movie we ever watched, there really is some line of a promise of a commitment to face adversity. Are they going to do it? Are they not, you know, And so it's just it's just very human. And ⁓ and so that's one of the stories that not only that one would go viral through Reddit, too, then he he actually has a TED talk and he wrote a

book of napkin notes and was on the Today Show. This whole because I said everything has really weird roots and branches. But we're happy that it hopefully inspires people to do something decent.

Pat Tenneriello (40:27)
Beautiful story. I love that.

Switching gears, you've, you've built a, global movement, but I've read and heard that you carry yourself with humility. Sometimes people, you know, you might be next to some audience members before you go out and speak and they can't even tell that you're the one who's going to be speaking, right? You just kind of blend in and you're very humble is, is what I've, what I've heard. And I'm curious, like, I've thought about this a lot, like,

In order to go and build something you need and to speak, you need a certain level of confidence. And oftentimes that can translate into ego, right? And a lot of the leaders and bosses that I've had in my life, I've kind of associated with ego and overconfidence. And I'm wondering like, how do you, how do you balance that, that confidence to take the risks, to follow through, but without the arrogance or the ego that might follow suit?

Alex (41:24)
Yeah.

Yeah, I think I got an answer for this because this is almost the advice I would give a public speaker very specifically. So I do speeches, all kinds of places, but one of them is in my schools, like inner city schools, rural schools. I speak in prisons and juvenile detention centers, like some pretty tough spot. Like go to an inner city school that has no

air conditioning in August, it's legitimately 84 degrees in the room and try to talk to kids for an hour. Like, I don't care who you are. That is just some that's a tough ask. Right. By the way, schools should have air conditioning. But the point I'm trying to make here is that like, yeah, kids will throw things at each other. They will, you know, make noises like it's it's their kids. It's fine.

Pat Tenneriello (42:03)
Hmm.

Alex (42:16)
like it's part of the job or something. But how do you get through that moment? And how does that connect to the confidence question you have? It does come back to those thought those thoughts of core values because Pat, I can go up there and there's there's almost like a chip on my shoulder thought where it's like, listen, I don't care if you listen or don't listen. I don't care if I embarrass myself up here. What I'm saying is something that I not only believe in personally,

but I think this is something that would improve the world, right? Whether it's a resiliency skill, a mental health

Pat Tenneriello (42:50)
you

Alex (42:51)
habit, a character value, like we're talking about accountability or whatever it is, and you could do whatever you want as an audience member, and that will not inherently change the value of what I am saying up here. So I almost, I'm like, you know what? I hope you check your phone. I hope you get up and leave, because I don't care if there's 10,000 of you out there,

or 25 and none of you are paying attention. This is something I care about. This is something

Pat Tenneriello (43:19)
you

Alex (43:20)
that I have that has value and ⁓ I want to be the person who can stay up there. Feel that sense of, I don't know, embarrassment or

like plow through a difficult moment because they, someone actually believes in this, you know, and the conditions will not change that belief. So I feel like that's where some of, my confidence comes from. And of course that's still ego, right? Cause like, Alex, who are you to say what is right and wrong and da da da da. So I'm not trying to say like, I have all the answers or something like that. but that's how I interpret it. Whereas

You know, you're mentioning some of leaders are like, how important are you as a person? How wealthy are you as an individual or what have or popular or what have you? And I think that's how I'm separating confidence. I have confidence in these values and not a damn thing is going to change about that. So do whatever you guys want to do out there. And, and there's something that

is even stronger about that, that confidence and how it comes across because you can always shake someone's self-esteem, right? Just get them on a bad day or, or have them stutter or there's something in their teeth or, you know, whatever. And that, that, that's too fragile to endure all conditions, but something like honesty, self-control, accountability, compassion, these things,

they're really just not affected by these details.

Pat Tenneriello (45:00)
What advice would you have for someone who may lack the confidence to go out and do something?

Alex (45:09)
I would say that, you know, this is only a portion of the pie chart, but some of that lack of confidence may also come from like the lack of confidence that it's actually going to work out. Right? Like am I going to succeed or am is this going to work? Right? They're kind of focused on the end result, which is understandable. Like we just said, we're not going to live forever. We're not trying to waste our time and so on. But I would say for that person kind of swap out the value proposition.

of accomplishment and trade it for sacrifice. I think that most people would say that, know, sacrificing

anything, time, resources, whatever it might be for something greater than yourself is an admirable character value. I don't, there's not many humans in the world that would disagree with that. I would also think that most people would say not enough people sacrifice for what they believe in. And we need to see more of that in this world. And so there are moments where, you know, when you kind of feel that shakiness and lack of confidence and things,

where I again tell myself just like, hope I, you know, if I fail, I don't care. I will embarrass myself. I will waste my time doing something that is right. And quite frankly, I want to live in a world where more people do that. You know, we're not trying to, you know, just waste our existence, but you get what I'm saying, right? Like who is going to stand up and feel embarrassed and feel a lack of confidence and

and waste resources even trying to do what's right. Isn't that a good thing? So like for that person who's not feeling confidence, take that as a point of pride. That embarrassment, like soak in that, being like, I'm a person who will do things even when they're embarrassed or ashamed or whatever, because it's the right thing to do. The person who does the right thing and feels no weight, I mean, is that sacrifice?

Pat Tenneriello (47:16)
Okay.

Alex (47:16)
Right, right. Is that it if it's so easy, isn't character obviously we can go to a whole conversation about but that but you get what I'm saying, right? Like

I would be proud of those those moments of of not feeling right, you know

Pat Tenneriello (47:30)
in the corporate world where I tend to see overconfidence or ego, well, not necessarily, you could see it in everyday life as well, but that's what's coming to mind for me. it's oftentimes these work, you know, we were doing something that wasn't saving the rainforest, you know, put it that way. It wasn't that impactful. It was a technology which, you know, helped to solve a problem and you know, that there's something to be said about that.

But as I hear you speak, a lot of what you're saying, it reminded me of when I was in that place where I was like, I want to make a bigger difference. There's probably a lot of people who listen to this podcast, who have that make a difference. Their job's probably question, what can I do to make a bigger difference? I certainly question that all the time.

and,

I mean, where you're at is such a, it's such a, it's such a wonderful, like it's something to aim at, right? To be able to align those things, to be able to have enough money to pay the bills. you know, you're not a, you're not a rich person. said you're on a high school salary, but you know, you can, you can feed yourself, feed your family and make an incredibly impactful difference in the world to align those things. Most people will have a career and then maybe we'll give back on the side or like to align those things is incredibly challenging.

Alex (48:51)
Yeah, and it's something you shouldn't even work towards. That's even as a as in a humanitarian. I will even say that now there has to be some people out there that need to pay the price to keep society glued together. Right. You got you got folks who do have to ⁓ kind of be a martyr in their in their own way so that people are safe and taken care of and blah, blah.

But really, pat the equation to make this world better is not very hard at all. 75.1 % of all Americans don't volunteer a single hour in an entire year. So if people just did what you said, which was work their regular job and just kind of on the side, just did a few nice things, volunteer. I'm saying once a year. I'm not saying every weekend. I'm not even saying once a quarter. I'm not even saying.

a whole day in that one day. I'm saying like a few hours.

Pat Tenneriello (49:47)
you

Alex (49:48)
We're talking about billions of dollars of charitable impact across our country, let alone the world. And so I do think that it doesn't take much. Even with where we're at today, as much doom and gloom as there can be at any point in human history.

Pat Tenneriello (49:59)
Okay.

Alex (50:11)
If you look at a lot of the humanitarian statistics, life is getting better. Now, it may not feel

that way, and there are things that are definitely getting worse, like the condition of our environment, which is paramount. look access to clean drinking water. Look at mortality rates, rates of cancer.

Like my dad might have survived cancer if he was diagnosed today because the treatment is just entirely different. The number of people who die in war, casualties

Pat Tenneriello (50:40)
So,

Alex (50:40)
by cause of death of being in war, like these numbers are all dramatically down, right? So the world is getting better in many ways. And again, lots of ways not, but just if you put an index together, it's very likely pointing to a good direction. So if that is true,

If we're already in a lot of ways, life is getting better than if some of the folks who are on the bench, you know, just gave a little more time to help. Right. And not much. You know, you're talking about just even that much more positivity entering the world. So I don't want to discount a lot of scary things that are happening right now.

Humanity in the United States. I have my moments of worry as well, but man, just everybody picking a charity and nonprofits that they care about and just one weekend helping out would fundamentally change the course of human history forever. We would not need to change legislation on every last thing. would not need to be reallocated. wouldn't.

Need this new advanced

Pat Tenneriello (51:49)
you

Alex (51:50)
technology to come out. We wouldn't have to wait for anything. It is in our hands should we just choose to grasp it.

Pat Tenneriello (51:59)
Anyone listening who is maybe in that 75 % and wants to reduce that statistic and get involved and maybe resonates with what you're doing and with your nonprofit, how can they get involved? How can they help you, Alex?

Alex (52:12)
Yes, email us at contact at because I said I would dot org or go to our website. Learn how you can not only involved maybe as a remote volunteer, right? And helping grow our programs and resiliency and mental health in schools, prisons and our 92 acre camp. Or maybe you're down for a road trip, right? You want to come to central Ohio or 92 acre where we help grieving families with resiliency skills and mental health habits. We're always looking people.

for people to paint benches and clear branches from the trails and all that kind of good stuff. We're looking for board members if you're interested in that kind of level involvement. Also, if you happen to work in a school or a prison in any way or you know a friend or family member that's looking for a program, the centers around resiliency, skills, and mental health habits, reach out to us. We'd love to talk about starting something. So there's a lot of different ways, but at the end of the day, I think what

Pat Tenneriello (52:42)
you

Alex (53:08)
I would recommend, especially based off this conversation with Pat, is forget about us. Go find another nonprofit. There's a hundred in your town and they need you sign up to volunteer for them. That promise is as good as any.

Pat Tenneriello (53:25)
Sounds great. like to end every episode with this question. Everyone has their own growing up story. You've shared parts of yours today on this conversation, which I'm grateful for. Growing up means something different to everyone. What does growing up mean to you, Alex?

Alex (53:42)
I think that growing up, I think it means understanding sacrifice.

The betterment of the world unfortunately requires sacrifice and I wish that weren't true But unfortunately, there's too much pain and suffering to balance this equation any other way When a when a Human being comes to the point. I don't care if they're 10 years old or they're 80 they come to them a moment where it's like This is this is what I got to do to make the world better I think is important because

In all this philosophical discussion we've had, I don't actually even have a confidence in my own belief on what the purpose of life is. I'm actually not a religious person, so I'm not sure about that. I think about it a lot, obviously. It's part of my job. I don't know what the purpose of life is, though, but I know it's not to suffer. I know that for sure. And so I think on the other side of that is

is the sacrifices we need to make to ensure that others aren't suffering.

Pat Tenneriello (54:49)
Does sacrifice equal suffering?

Alex (54:53)
Yeah, I think it does. so I'll actually take that what you're saying in a different angle. Because I do mean a different word for suffering, even though obviously a dictionary definition, sacrifice would be suffering. So for example, running a marathon, right? Clearly suffering Alex, right? Like, I mean, come on, it's not fun. That's suffering. that grows you, right? And I think that's also what you're saying in the thought of like, well, isn't sacrifice suffering?

as well, I mean a different word that doesn't sort of exist. It makes me think of the German language. Like German language has a lot of compound words that like, sort of finite language that has, it just has more words for things, right? And the version of the word of suffering I'm looking for doesn't involve sacrifice. It doesn't involve

moments of hardship that, you know,

better you and other people. It's like it's almost like a pie chart of everything besides that bucket. And I don't know how to say that. and I'm going to think about that more because that's the word I want. I'm talking about and pardon the seriousness of what I'm saying. You already know these things, Pat, because you've been a supporter for a while. But like when we talk about those grieving families, you know, we work with the mothers of murdered Columbus children.

There is no purpose in that suffering that they have experienced, right? We work with kids who've, you we had a lacrosse team come to camp recently. A 15 year old boy was playing lacrosse in Cleveland, Ohio. He's playing defense. He struck my ball and the injury ends his life. You know, this is the sorrow and suffering of these moments. The impact of child abuse, the effects of

Pat Tenneriello (56:27)
⁓

Alex (56:38)
not having clean water and starvation, like these are the types of suffering. So I need a different word to be invented for me to say what I'm trying to say here. But you ask a very good and clarifying question because you're absolutely right. Resiliency requires practice, challenge, difficulty. And that's part of the equation that we believe in. I kind of wish that it didn't exist. I kind of wish that life was

Pat Tenneriello (56:42)
Okay.

Alex (57:06)
Sort of just this utopia that didn't require us to train, you go through hardships, learn from our mistakes, feel embarrassed. I wish that didn't exist, but that's not, unfortunately, the human condition. Like, we are who we are as an organism, and apparently we do need some challenge to keep ourselves strong. So, I really like that question.

Pat Tenneriello (57:29)
Thank you for clarifying that and it's something I think about and read about a lot because suffering is a topic that comes up a lot in Buddhism. I practice Azen meditation and suffering is really viewed in a positive way in that regard and I think you're making the distinction here between kind of suffering with no purpose, some of those examples and suffering for the greater good or suffering. If you can imagine a life with zero suffering, that would be a terrible, terrible life.

Alex (57:48)
Mm-hmm.

Pat Tenneriello (57:56)
in the way that they use suffering in Buddhism, right? a, so thank, yeah, that really fascinating discussion to end out our conversation. are you, I'm really curious, are you self-taught in all this? Like the psychology, you learn all this yourself?

Alex (58:01)
Mm-hmm, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, unfortunately, you know, that's why we, why are we hire mental health professionals and licensed individuals and stuff like that, because, there's no way to run an organization to be like, I just read a book, you know, so, you know, I hope that our programs have higher efficacy and, better people behind, behind them in, in some ways in other ways. I also.

Pat Tenneriello (58:16)
Wow.

Alex (58:37)
You know, build what what I'm involved in based off of research, right? Like I worked in market research and competitive intelligence. And now that's not the same as what we're talking about. But like understanding cause and effect was this in a peer reviewed journal. Is this something that has actually been studied or does this just sound good? You know, in the example of another nonprofit

Pat Tenneriello (58:44)
you

Alex (59:05)
program. Have you ever heard of scared straight by chance? Like it's when they bring they bring like kids who are breaking the law, they bring them to like prisons and they try to, you know, scare them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, so the department of justice has a part of their website that just says, don't do this like ever. And why? Because they did a study on it and kids who

Pat Tenneriello (59:09)
⁓ did they make a documentary about that on? I, yeah. Okay.

Alex (59:32)
go through the program of scared straight versus don't right there. People who go through scared straight are more likely to commit crimes. It like normalizes the behavior and expectations of prison in a way that has unintended consequences, right? So even with the right goal of like, let's let's not get these kids, you know, let's get these kids to understand like this is not a life they want to live for some reason. It doesn't work.

Right. And that's where my background, you know, sort of played into the way that the charity would run. It's like, show me research cognitive reframing. What is that? So show me, you know, like, give me evidence that this might exist. And if it's not perfect science, that's fine. Right. Because a lot of this isn't the four types of self-control. Can you really draw with math like

that it delineates in these things. No, but like, at least as a university is ⁓ like, how does this align with habits? You know, that's where background more played out in this. But when the charity started, it went viral so quickly that there's no time to go back to school. And so I just would listen to hundreds of audio books on psychology and leadership. And I guess that's the last thing I want to

end with Pat, want to write another book. that book, I want to call all these books are the same book. Just be like, a lot of these habits are just the same thing. These are just all these books are saying the same things, literally citing the same studies, and all that kind of stuff. It's some of it's not rocket science, we just need to do these habits. But with that, thank you for being a supporter for so long. In 2014 was a clip ago, and

Pat Tenneriello (1:01:07)
Mm-hmm.

Alex (1:01:20)
And we're still here because people like you said, hey, we want to give this charity a little bit of a platform or support them in some kind of kind of way. So thank you for buying that shirt so long ago, listening to me. Yeah. And I hope, you know, maybe in another 10 years or so we can do this again.

Pat Tenneriello (1:01:38)
Sounds great, Alex. I'm so grateful that you took the time with all that you're doing to speak with us on the podcast. think it's going to be very valuable to our listeners. You've been on much, much larger platforms, but to take the time to be on the podcast means a lot. So thank you.

Alex (1:01:53)
thank you. Keep fighting the good fight with your commitments and raising that two year old and same to everybody who can hear our voices, hoping only the best for you and your journey with your promises.

Pat Tenneriello (1:02:05)
Thank you, Alex.

Alex (1:02:06)
Awesome. Thanks, Pat.

Pat Tenneriello (1:02:08)
Thank you for tuning in to this week's episode of After Peter Pan. I'd love if you could leave us a like, drop us a rating. It really helps to drive new audiences to the show. Thanks again and until next time.