After Peter Pan: Growing Up to Purpose

The Power of “No”: From Public Housing to Serial Entrepreneur

• Season 1 • Episode 13

Share episode

Pat sits down with serial entrepreneur Sean Frost to trace his journey from public housing and the rap game, through healthcare and general contracting, to building thriving ventures in real estate, custom home building, and music production. Along the way, Sean reveals how authenticity—wearing every hat at once—combined with the power of saying “no” and embracing vulnerability, became the pillars of his resilience and success.

What You’ll Learn:

  • How Sean’s roots in public housing and early music career instilled grit, empathy, and an unwavering work ethic
  • Why learning to say “no” became his greatest superpower—and how it fuels focus, presence, and growth
  • The role of vulnerability in building trust: why being real is the fastest path to connection
  • How Sean navigated anxiety, guilt and depression —walking away from a draining business and an unfulfilling job, and rebuilding from scratch
  • The mindset shifts that turn hardship into opportunity, and discomfort into a catalyst for growth
  • Practical strategies for cultivating presence, setting boundaries, and leading with heart

Social Media:

Send a text message to the show!

Support the show

Sean McRae Aka Sean Frost (00:02)
if I'm not into something, if I'm not passionate about something,

I don't do it anymore. I just say no. if I'm not into it, I don't do it. if something comes across my desk for a next business venture and it looks super lucrative and looks great. If I'm not interested, I don't do it. I don't do something because it's going to make me money. It's not what I'm here for. If it's a social thing and like the guys are going out,

And they're like, let's go for beers. We're going to do this or yada, yada, yada. And I'm like, I'm not feeling it. I'm not doing it.

if I didn't want to be here, I wouldn't be here. And I want people to know, especially those that are close to me, that if I'm doing something with them right there, right then, there's no place in the world that I'd rather be than be with them doing what we're doing at that time.

Pat Tenneriello (00:42)
Welcome to After Peter Pan, a podcast all about growing up and finding your purpose. I'm your host, Pat Tenneriello And in today's episode, I sit down with Sean Frost. He's a serial entrepreneur across real estate investing, general contracting, custom home building, and even music production. We talk about his story from his humble upbringing in Ottawa public housing to his ups and downs as an entrepreneur.

The episode covers themes of overcoming the tendency to be a people pleaser, learning how to say no and to show up authentically and to be vulnerable in order to connect with people in your career and in life in general. I really enjoy Sean's perspective on the journey of life rather than the destination. And I think that listeners will take a lot.

away from his message and his story. Thanks for tuning in.

Pat Tenneriello (01:33)
you do a ton of stuff. I was doing a bit of research on you ahead of the conversation and you had said so that you had like five different companies if I got that right. So like it's hard to define you, how do you typically describe yourself since you do so much?

Sean McRae Aka Sean Frost (01:47)
Yeah. And that's actually a super easy answer. Pat is that it's all just me. that's the definition is it's me as a, as a human, as a, a person, we talk about like the work life balance a lot, right. And, made a very, very intentional that I actually don't really operate that way. I operate as, you know, I might have multiple hats, but I'm kind of wearing them always at the same time. and I do that again on purpose so that

What you see is what you get with me. I might be involved in a bunch of different things and passion, passion projects and what have you, but it all really just falls under like who I am. So you, kind of get the same version of me in any realm that you kind of follow me into. that's, I think that's one of the strong suits. One of the things that I figured out that works really well for me. So I don't separate like, I'm doing the real estate thing or I'm doing the music thing or I'm doing the football or soccer thing, or I'm doing like it's

And then obviously most importantly, the family thing, the husband, the dad, the everything is kind of rolled into one. And it's like, what you see is what you get. It's all encompasses Sean.

Pat Tenneriello (02:48)
you know, it's, interesting because that is something that I've always aspired to have in my life, which is this idea to be a hundred percent authentic, no matter what the setting and no matter who's in front of me. Right. So my level of comfort, if I'm completely honest with myself, if I'm with my wife, I could just, I don't, you know, there's no mask. It's, it's me. Right.

But if I'm in front of my boss, as much as I strive for authenticity and to be real, if I'm honest with myself, I'm probably putting a mask on, right? Like I'm putting my best foot forward. If I'm having a bad day, maybe I'm not sharing that with him. And so how do you balance that authenticity and wanting to be a hundred percent yourself with the realities of life, right? Like if you're in front of your client, like how do you...

balance that. say, Hey, Sean, like, how's it going today? And like, you know, you've had a awful day in your personal life. Like, so how do you, how do you bring that authenticity and balance that?

Sean McRae Aka Sean Frost (03:48)
I think it's relatability. I'm an open book and I'm an open book with clients as well. you know, I'm very fortunate that I think in my, the fields that I work in, it's okay to be vulnerable because my clients are vulnerable with me.

know, because there's always so much going on like for example, like take the real estate side and just me being on the broker side Buying and selling homes for clients. Well the amount of stuff that you go through like half the time you're you're playing therapist as well, right? So whether it's You know family losses divorces, like you name, you know deaths in the family like you you name what's going on and you experience it Well, if my clients are being vulnerable with me,

what's to say that it's not professional or not appropriate for me to be vulnerable with my clients. And one of the things, one of the lines in the sand that I, I set right away, especially on the real estate side, but in, in a lot of businesses that I have is that, you know, our working and professional relationship doesn't have to necessarily just be, transactional. And I think that there's a lot of value when you can, you know, establish

more extensive connections with the people that you're working with. And that's not to say everybody needs to be your best friend, but if people are going to, you know, obviously people want to work with people that they know, like, and trust. So if I want people to really feel comfortable with me and feel comfortable and be able to trust me, just like I'm feeling comfortable and trusting them, then I have to reciprocate that vulnerability. And I have to be, I have to be myself because if I'm wearing a mask and that's not to say that you can't

be strategic in how you portray and present yourself. need that's, that's part of the act of the part of the game of business is making sure that you're coming across in a way that you know is, um, is fitting for that situation. I think

pulling that authenticity and being like yourself, but, but making sure that you're putting your best foot forward on how you want to be perceived in that situation is important, but by doing it coming from a real way and not pretending that you're, coming, you're not pretending that it's, it's false and that you're strictly doing it to, you know, get what you want at the end. And I think that's the battle. Like that's the thing that I'm

you know, without tooting my own horn, I think I do that pretty well. Like I'm very comfortable in my own skin doing that is like, okay, this is kind of where I need to steer the ship and where I need to get to. But these are the traits that I have that are going to get me there. And at the end of the day, when I, before I put my head down on the pillow, I know that it was coming from me and not coming from a place of manipulation. If that makes sense.

Pat Tenneriello (06:20)
I like that answer because you touched on a few things. One is

the nature of relationship and building a connection to the people you do business with. At the end of the day, business, it's really a complicated or complex game. There needs to be fun in it. It's basically, we grow up when we're young, play these hide and seek, we play these simple games. And as we get older, we become adults. All business is, all life is, is just a series of more complicated games. And in order to play a game, you need people who want to play with you. And if you're transactional,

then you might win on that one transaction, but if you didn't play the game right, then people aren't gonna wanna play with you, even if you won. And so I completely am with you when people who win long-term are the ones who are willing and able to build a relationship and there's trust. And I liked what you said about vulnerability because at the end of the day, to get that connectedness, there's nothing more powerful.

being vulnerable. In my experience with vulnerability is if you bring something vulnerable to the table, the person on the other side is typically going to react with vulnerability either equal to or greater than the vulnerability that you shared and then you feel a level of connectedness. For me, I feel that in my body with a level of anxiety like in my stomach just disappears. There's nothing there. Sometimes in social interactions, can

especially in the beginning, we could feel a little nervous, a little anxious, but as soon as we talk about something vulnerable, that's gone. Did you learn these, call them characteristics, did you learn them or is it something that you had from the beginning? And for listeners, any lessons on how they can kind of implement this in their professional lives?

Sean McRae Aka Sean Frost (08:04)
You know, it comes down to, in my case, probably parenting and family members, right? So my mom is quite empathetic, massive, massive heart and, you know, a lot of integrity, hard worker.

that sense of like really appreciating people I think came from her and then on the flip side, my dad is a really, he's a go-getter. He's got a hustler's mentality. He's go, go, go. But to have that, you also need to be able to work a room and you need to be able to maneuver through conversations and different personalities and really understand. I don't necessarily want to say understand people, but

just understand the power of the connection. And I think my dad was really, really good at that on the business and the hustling side. And my mom's really good at with people and just, you you could walk into a room and, you you can feel my mom's energy. Like as a kid, I came from like a neighborhood where there was a, it was a really big pot of cultures and different types of people. And so,

None of that matter like from religion to gender to to beliefs to whatever you have, you know Everybody would be around like you could just sense that from my mom right away. Like she was just like she was a mom she was a very loving comforting person where People were very vulnerable like my friends all the time were super vulnerable and always just had a really really strong connection with my mom and So I think just from the parenting side

And you know, I lived with my grandparents. My mom and I came up to Ottawa from Florida. We didn't really have we didn't have a place to live. So I lived with my grandparents for a few years while we were kind of finding our finding our feet and getting that.

That love and the kind of the old school mentality from my grandparents as well. I know that that's a massive influence on me. So I kind of just probably subconsciously or unconsciously used a lot of those, those traits and characteristics and learnings from them. But then, I think probably just being my, my mom and dad's son, you know, my parents were split. So getting them both one-on-one was such a blessing. The fact that they weren't together and being able to kind of grab

the strongest and best traits from both of them, again, without knowing it, but I think those helped really shape me. And at the end of the day, I'm just a people just enjoy, you know, of course dealing with people has ups and downs, but at the end of the day, I'm, really, I really liked that part of life is the fact that, you know, that we can connect just for example, like us right now, right? We're same time, two different places and

we have this miracle that we're able to connect right here, right now. So that stuff drives me. So I think it's a little bit of everything. It's like self-taught, self, you know, who I am to the core, but a lot of those core values came from my upbringing.

Pat Tenneriello (10:49)
I'm sensing a lot of gratitude for your parents and gratitude for your upbringing. I'm sure you could also like you, it sounds like you choose to focus on the positives, right? Like you mentioned the positives that your mom has instilled in you and the positives your dad did, despite what might've been a challenging upbringing at times having to come up from Florida with, with nothing. Some people in that situation may choose to focus or dwell on some of the hardships or the negatives.

I'm sensing a lot of positivity. How do you stick with that sense of gratitude despite the ups and downs?

Sean McRae Aka Sean Frost (11:25)
so here's the thing Pat if you You know if you think of your life like say as a as a movie or as a as a novel, right? So we'll put it as a novel to make it easy So this is kind of how I can look at it that if you're reading a novel in every chapter in the novel is nothing but bubblegum rainbows It's probably not going to be the most thrilling novel to read it's not going to be the most entertaining novel to read and

you know, once you get through a couple of chapters, it's probably going to get pretty redundant and pretty boring and you're going to put it down. So why, you know, I'm already, as we all are, we're already so blessed to actually be walking or be on the earth living. you know, there's a lot of steps that, have to happen for us to even be here in the first place. So the fact that we are blessed enough to be here right now and experiencing, you know, life in general,

it has to be ups and downs and why wouldn't you want it to be ups and downs? in the sense that like you, yeah. Why wouldn't you want to create the best story? Like why wouldn't you, you want your life to be the best story that you could possibly create? So for sure, take all those hardships and like, that's not to say at the time while they were going down, you know, like whether we're on subsidized housing and you know, trying to, you know, make ends meet. and then

on the flip side, like, you know, living comfortably, not worrying about bill payments, this, that, and the other have that all rolled into one. Why wouldn't you want to live a life that you can look back on and be like, man, like I really went through some stuff and it made me to the, you know, I was able to prevail or persevere and look where I am today. Like I'm really glad and thankful that I was kind of able to go through those things and, and, and, push through them. Cause the next time something comes up, it's like, all right, well I've done it before. I'm going to do it again.

And then try to try to get your mind right. That's one of the takeaways that I always try to leave is that You know perception is a big thing And getting your mind right around a situation. That's not to say that you can't get frustrated you can't vent you're supposed to feel those emotions and Those are healthy and it's healthy obviously to get them off your chest too. But I think it all just comes down to like looking at the bigger picture and

getting your mind right and feeling how you feel, but then at the end of the day, taking a deep breath and being like, you know, if.

I'm glad that whatever's happening is happening to me because I know that I'm strong enough to get through it and I know that I'm gonna look back on it at some point and be thankful that it happened and be appreciative and proud of myself that I was able to kind of kick down the door and push through it.

Pat Tenneriello (13:49)
I love the attitude and I think that's the right attitude because a lot of people have the mentality of if only I had or if only I was, if only I had a lot, you know, came from a rich upbringing, you know, I'd be able to do so and so, or if only I didn't have this hardship in my life, I'd be able to do, you know, whatever, fill in the blanks. And so those are sort of excuses, right?

And what I like about your answer is that you embrace those hardships, those challenges. At the end of the day, all want a hero. It's not that we all want a hero's journey, but it's that the best version of life is a hero's journey. And that's, think you mentioned that in your answer when you talked about reading a good book, right? Nobody wants to read a book that is just some guy frolicking or some woman frolicking, you know, and everything's just perfect because you need.

You need hardship, you need a climax, you need that mountain to climb. And that's what makes for a good story. we all, at end of the day, that's the type of life that is worth living, that is fulfilling. that's what this podcast is all about, is finding meaning and purpose. So that all ties in really nicely together. But I think some people have a hard time seeing

Have you always looked at life that way? was there ever a switch or like through moments in your life that you've changed or updated your mindset to what it is today?

Sean McRae Aka Sean Frost (15:22)
I've always been my toughest critic. I'm, I want to be the hardest worker in the room. I don't want to be the loudest in the room. I want to put my head down. And then when other people are saying, like you said, if I had this or if this had gone my way, I, I, I don't do that. I'm, I have always hold and that's

Not always a good thing for me. but I hold myself very accountable. and nobody, nobody holds me more accountable than I do for myself. So I've always had that. So it's, it's always been on me when things are bad, you know, I'm, I'm going through it, but

i've always had that that self belief where it's like, you know, even if I can't see the bigger picture or see that it's going to be okay. i've always i've always had that thing where it's like Nobody's going to get me out of something unless I do it and that's not to say it's always been me That's done it but i've always had that mentality that I got I got myself here I've got to get myself out and and I think that's from my upbringing like growing up lower income housing, you know in the hood

And and just figuring it out you see a lot of things you experience a lot of things And you appreciate a lot of things maybe not necessarily as a kid at the time because you don't quite have that awareness, but Definitely as you get older and older and you start seeing more and more and understanding more and more For me that was that was kind of a light switch like okay, like I

I need to pick my socks up and I need to make this journey the best journey that I could possibly make it. And that's been part of the reason of my struggles too. And I've hit my personal rock bottoms. It's that's why this podcast is fitting because when I've hit those spots, especially before, you know, kind of getting through to the other side, it's those were a lot of the struggles where I'm like, you know, this is fine, but I'm not, I'm not good with fine. There's something off, there's something wrong. I don't know what it is, but it's not me and that

I need to, need to figure something out and I need to figure something out. It doesn't need to come from somewhere. I don't need to win the lottery. I don't want to win the lottery. I don't play the lottery. Like stuff like that is that's not, that's not what my goals are and how I'm driven. My driven is like pull my socks up, roll my sleeves up and let's get to work. And if that avenue of what I'm trying to do, that path doesn't work.

Well then I'm going to, I'm going to make a new one. And if I have to break through concrete or whatever I need to do to get through, there's, there's absolutely nothing that's going to stop me. And if that's not the right path, then I'll try something else. And can it get discouraging? Yes. Will I let it stop me? Never.

Pat Tenneriello (17:47)
getting a good taste for your, your mindset and the way you operate. I'm hearing accountability. I'm hearing someone who's very, determined. Let's tie this a bit more into your story. Cause I'd like people to know your story a little bit more. You've talked about your upbringing, public housing, you've moved up from Florida. so, so maybe, yeah, take it from there. Tell us a kind of finish up on your upbringing a little bit and then, and then roll that into.

What happened next?

Sean McRae Aka Sean Frost (18:16)
yeah, like I said, my we all lived in I lived in Lauderdale as a baby you know, my parents went separate ways. My mom's family was was based in Ottawa, Canada. So my mom and I came back up to Ottawa. We lived with my grandparents for a little while until we could, you know, like I said, get our bearings and figure things out. My dad came up shortly after and kudos to him. So he came back up to Ottawa and

located up here. Although my parents weren't together, they had an amazing relationship, great friends, great friendship, to this day. in terms of a healthy environment that way it was always really solid. Always a lot of love from both sides of my parents. And again, like I said, both of them live such different lives that I was able to grab so many good things from them. And my, you know, I'm an only child my

Pat Tenneriello (18:52)
you

Sean McRae Aka Sean Frost (19:04)
My friend group my entire life has been very very very strong and super appreciative of that So never really felt alone or anything like that.

My dad's best friend was a touring sound man. So this is where my my passion for music really came in As a kid, I've always been drawn to music. That's been my my biggest inspiration and passion You know, my dad's best friend, like I said was a touring sound man So we didn't have a ton of money, but I did I was rich in experience So the fact anytime a band or a group or whatnot would come around

And this guy was obviously the sound engineer for the show. We'd be backstage, we'd be attending all the concerts, meeting all these massive artists. that was kind of a fire that was one of the first fires that was being lit under me is that this is something that...

I'm super passionate about whether or not it's going to be a career or where my life is going to take me. That wasn't really what it was about. It was like, this is what I'm into. And, you know, as a kid, I'm dating myself, but I walked around everywhere with a briefcase full of cassettes. you know, I, I, I just continued down the music path. And then I actually started producing in, in high school and started my own first, my first, production company while I was in high school and

Pat Tenneriello (20:16)
Impressive.

Sean McRae Aka Sean Frost (20:17)
Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. So I, you know, again, I was able to kind of mirror that business model off of growing up in these neighborhoods that, you know, we kind of had to scratch and claw to make it through. And, so you can take that how you will, but I was able to get an understanding of how to deal with people and how to operate,

You know, that when I was able to start this, this business, kind of had a little bit of momentum. So I was kind of using that. I was having fun. was working as a music producer. had, you know, access to a studio. I own my own studio And of course, I'm a firm believer in continued education as well. So whether that's through institutional, or self self-learning, work experience, whatever it is.

I also had those family pressures of, you know, after high school, what's next? So I tried to quote unquote, do the responsible thing and go to university at the same time. So I was trying to go to, I was going to, I was attending university. I wasn't going to class very much, but I was enrolled and I was getting the work done. I just wasn't physically there and still working on music on the side. And then

Pat Tenneriello (21:14)
Hehehe.

Sean McRae Aka Sean Frost (21:24)
I was back up in Ottawa finishing my exams. The studio kind of went belly up in, in Kansas city where I was working with a few artists down there and I decided, okay, you know, it's, probably time that I quote unquote grow up. And I got a job at the Ottawa hospital, worked in healthcare. and that was, that was kind of the first turning point in my life where I was like, okay, I'm now working a job, not a career, but a job that

I really enjoy, but this is kind of it. There's not really that much room. There's nowhere to really grow in this. And I don't want to, there's no positions that are, there's no ladder to climb that I have any interest in whatsoever. And I really liked the Ottawa hospital job because I was in patient care. So I was working again, people thing. It was working with people, with patients, trying to make an unpleasant experience a little bit more

I really really enjoyed working that job until the day I left and But I did hit a roadblock where I was that in that internal struggle like I like getting up and going to work I never dread going into work. But what am I doing? What am I doing with my life and That's when I started really, you know struggling internally and and mentally about This isn't it for me.

But what do I do? How do I get unstuck? Like what's the next play? What's the next move? And you know, I started trying a few things and I got into the general contracting world where I had a buddy whose language was where English was a second language, sorry. And he was, you know, he's a brother of mine. He's like,

a very, very, very good friend. He's family and we started this general contracting company together and I absolutely despised it. So now, you know, I'm working as the face of this general contracting company, trying to go above and beyond for all these clients and these people feeling like it's never enough, starting to get crazy anxiety anytime the work phone rings, plus moonlighting and also still working at the Ottawa hospital. And I'm like, okay, cool. Now I work a dead end job

I don't mean dead end job for everybody. mean, it was a job for me that it wasn't for me. It wasn't my, my be all end all anybody that's working those positions. they big hearts. They do a fantastic job and teach their own. That's not to say it's a dead end job for everybody. It just was for me. And so I'm working this job at the Ottawa hospital struggling with

How can I feel fulfilled? Right? And, and then on the flip side, have this business that I've started and we're getting jobs. We're getting, you know, some money's coming in. We have clients, but I'm getting a lot of heat from clients. Despite the fact that I feel like I'm bending over backwards. I'm getting anxiety, that feeling in my, in my stomach, like we talked about earlier, that feeling in your stomach. Every time the phone rings, I hated it. And then I started bringing on this guilt of

You know, my buddy, English as a second language, very skilled general contractor, but he needs me. Like he needs me to help get these contracts and get these deals. And if I let him down, what's he going to do? Like, how's he going to live? So then I'm taking on this guilt. I have this anxiety and then I have this depression from working at the Ottawa hospital kind of all rolled into one.

Big ball and i'm not even identifying all these things like live as they're happening. So like this is me reflecting but like when I was going through it, it was just like All I knew that something was off. I didn't know I couldn't place the pieces. I was like, this is just This is this ain't me. It's this ain't it and it's not me like there's something There's something wrong here and it took me years to sort that out. we ran this general contracting company for a long time until

One day that was it. It was just, just, I couldn't take it anymore. And I brought it up to my buddy and said, dude, I, I'm not happy. I, I'm so sorry. I feel terrible. I can't do this. And of course he's family. He literally looked at me and like, I could tell that he wanted to punch me in the face. Cause he was like, how long have you been feeling like this? And I'm like, basically since we opened the doors and he's like, you're an idiot. Like you're, you're

Like we're family, man. Like you should have just told me this right away. Like we would have figured something else out and obviously massive relief off my shoulders and huge weight off my chest. And, he's like, well, when do you want to, you know, kind of close this down? And I'm like,

Like five minutes ago, man, like, and he's like, yeah, we're done. Like you're good. I'll figure something out. I'll get a job working at another company and then we'll, we'll see what happens. And I'm like, yeah, he's like, I'll be fine. I'm skilled in like every trade. I'll get a trades job or I'll get a job somewhere and, and I'll be okay. I'll get a paycheck and we'll figure it out. I'm like, okay, cool. And so that was one thing off my, off my plate. And so then I was still at the Ottawa hospital.

And then I, you know, I'm always just trying different courses or trying new things. And at this point I'm out of music. So music's kind of like, I have a void there, a piece of me that's missing. I had another close friend come to me and say, listen, like, while you're trying to find yourself and find all these things, what about real estate? I think you would be an excellent real estate agent and it's nothing I'd ever thought about before. and I said, you know what? It's what, what's the worst that can happen? I in school.

See what happens and go from there. So I did I enrolled in it. The schooling was okay interest levels were so so but I understood that You know, it was more of an entrepreneurial job, you know, it wasn't based on working for somebody because I don't have a problem with authority, but I

I like to put my feet in my own hands as much as possible and bet on myself and if I win, fantastic. And if I lose, it's on me, it's not on somebody else. so I started the course, got my license and I did it lickety split. think within six months, it was like an 18 month course. I think I powered through it in like six months, got my license.

And, and I kind of just hit the ground running. That was a light switch. You know, my first showing my, I had the client that I showed the house to put a, put an offering on a property and we didn't get it, but I was like, okay, well, if that's how fast it can happen. And I know it's not going to, I'm realistic. I know it's not going to always be like that, but if this, if this is the potential and it is actually all on me to be able to create this, this business, like, I got this all day. And then

That's when things started. started kind of pulling myself out of the well and coming out of the mud. And then I was really like, well, I was still kind of just building the brand. Like it took a while. Another light bulb went off and I was like, okay, well this is a blessing because I now work at the Ottawa hospital, which yes, it might not be my future career, but

look who I'm working with. I'm now in the real estate space. I work with surgeons. I work with radiologists. I work with various other doctors, nurses, technologists, and other tech aides and clerks, all with really, really good paper trail jobs that look fantastic on paper in terms of security and in many cases with their earnings. Well, all these people need places to live as well. So they're going to be buying and selling. So if I can build my skills on the real estate side, why don't I start not only

Like I'm going to farm the healthcare system here in Ottawa and not only do I not have to pay for advertising and marketing to all of these people, I'm actually getting paid now to market my services to all these people at the Ottawa hospital.

So that's what I did. so to build my client base, I, you know, I was making, you know, not to toot my own horn, but literally making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year, working a part-time.

you know, $30,000 job a year at the Ottawa hospital because I dropped down from full time to part time so that I could really harness the real estate. But I'm working this not this, you know, seven, like seven to 11, 7am to 11am Monday to Friday job. That's not going to take me anywhere, but I'm marketing myself, making hundreds of thousands of dollars now through

hospital employees at this job that, you know, six months ago I was like, I can't believe I work here. Like, what am I doing with my life to, my God, I can't believe I work here. And I've literally been able to start a business from nothing to something in less than a year because I have this job. Like how thankful am I that I have it? And I worked that job even when I didn't need to because my mind was right and my perspective was changed.

I worked that job, both jobs for four years, simultaneously until my wife actually finally came out and said, listen, it's, you know, it was the turn of a new year. And she's like, let's not be ridiculous here. It's time to let that one go. Everybody knows that you're a real estate broker in the Ottawa healthcare system, pretty much like you don't need to be there anymore. And it it's crazy how timing works because that was February, 2020. And, obviously we know what happened in March, 2020. So

you know, the world changed. So it was, it's crazy just how things can happen, but I'm sorry, that was a super long winded answer, but here we are.

Pat Tenneriello (30:10)
Hmm.

Oh, that's good. I wanted your story and, so, and, and you do a lot of things. I wanted to kind of understand how that all came to be. So that is really helpful background. And I'm, I had written down all the different things I thought you did and you've touched on all of them except one. Um, I came across one of your websites that says you're a life coach.

Sean McRae Aka Sean Frost (30:40)
So yeah, that is a placeholder website to be honest, so I've like we're talking about continued education So I'm a big In the ideologies and methodologies like Tony Robbins. I'm I am a pretty big I don't want to say advocate, but I do appreciate the work that he does and

So the life coach thing is because I did Robin's Madonna's training, to get certification.

That website is a placeholder. is going to be an additional website down the road. I just literally bought the domain and wanted to throw something up there. with regards to life coaching, I don't, I don't charge, like I don't have clients per se and I don't charge people. I just do things like this podcast guest spots and I make myself as available as possible based on obviously my time availability.

Pat Tenneriello (31:11)
Okay.

Sean McRae Aka Sean Frost (31:25)
There's no monetary values attached to anything ever. It's if I'm able to allot the time, then I'll give it to you. That's my, obviously our most important and our finest resource that we have. So that's where the life coaching comes. I really do the focus on aspiring entrepreneurs or youth that are coming up that are feeling stuck or coming from situations where they just don't know where to go.

Pat Tenneriello (31:39)
Got it.

Sean McRae Aka Sean Frost (31:47)
That's where I want to offer my life experience and the things that worked for me and the things that didn't work for me. I just want to put them on the table because again, if you could pick up one piece of that information that might help you skip something or push through something a little bit easier, that's what I'm here to do. So that's kind of where the life coaching stuff comes in.

Pat Tenneriello (32:04)
Got it. A theme that I've noticed from doing research on you is your desire, willingness to give back. I've seen that in your involvement in Ottawa soccer and in what you just said and there's probably other examples too. Has that been a theme that you've always thought? Are you at a point in your life where you feel like you're ready to do that? Tell me about this.

this desire to give back. Why is that important to you?

Sean McRae Aka Sean Frost (32:31)
Yeah, so it all stems from the desire to help. So that was kind of the draw even to start getting into the Ottawa hospital was to help people. was just to try to make a difference again. doesn't matter how big or how small it is because everybody's perspective is different. What could be small to me could be big to somebody else. What could be big to me could be small to somebody else. That's irrelevant. At the end of the day, I want to be able to put my head down and know that...

I'm doing something positive and that's not to say everything I do is good. It's not to say I don't have vices I don't have faults. Of course I do but I've always had that thing. So when I was in high school my goal was to go to teachers college and specialize working with development developmentally delayed youth so from That's what I wanted to do. That was my dream.

Pat Tenneriello (33:09)
that's what you want it to do?

Sean McRae Aka Sean Frost (33:13)
So that was kind of my first passion that I wanted to, I wanted to kind of go down and

from there, like we said, it went to the hospital and my mom and I used to volunteer at the homeless shelters, you know, serving Thanksgiving dinner or Christmas dinner. You know, we didn't have a lot, but like, you know, even going to churches and stuff and like, you know, putting dinners together and getting in the car and driving them around to a list of families. And I will say that was kind of eye-opening. We only did that, I think that was one or two years because

we were actually dropping off Christmas or Thanksgiving dinners, Christmas dinners to places that were leaps and bounds ahead of where we were financially or even quality of life in terms of like our conditions. So we decided that that part wasn't really for us because we just felt.

Pat Tenneriello (34:03)
Wait, wait, you

were giving, if I understood that correctly, you were doing this work, this giving back, but you were giving to people who had more than you had. Did I get that right?

Sean McRae Aka Sean Frost (34:11)
Way more.

Way more. Yeah. Well, like, you know, we'd be going to houses, like where people like owned owned properties and, yeah, like dropping off like Christmas dinners. And it was like, okay, well, like this ain't right. No, like, yeah. So it happens. and that's, that's fine to each their own. I'm not, I'm not here to judge, but I can make a choice whether or not I want to continue participating or not. So,

Pat Tenneriello (34:23)
Weird. So is that the s- someone was just abusing the system or okay?

Mm-hmm.

Sean McRae Aka Sean Frost (34:38)
But yeah, again, all that just stems kind of again from the upbringing and that's from my mom, that wanting to give and wanting to be better. That is 100 % from my mom. know, my grandparents the same way like my grandpa. He was a fantastic man, but again, he passed all that down to my mom and my mom instilled that into me. And yeah, now that.

I've been able to kind of, you know, push through to the other side, I say in terms of, especially on the monetary side, like financially where I could, I could breathe and have that, I, you know, I guess saying freedom is, is close to the right term, but, now that I'm able to, provide and give back that

the doors were just open because it was like, now not only do I of course have the time and the energy to give back, but I can actually contribute one step further than what I could have before. And I feel really, really good doing it. So that's kind of where things took off. And with the soccer, it's been a perfect, a perfect harmony where they actually approached me. That's our professional football or professional soccer team here in, in Ottawa approached me to be a partner. And it's all based on, on the synergies of community engagement and give back. And that's where we,

we align perfectly. So I'm able to use their platform. They're able to use my platform to really give back to the community. So whether or not we're bringing, community centers of underprivileged youth coming out to matches, you know, whether or not I'm able to bring out, an underprivileged, you know, a, family that really needs it and provide a gift card for them for the game so that they can get their food and drinks on me. If they're able to, you know, I partner with the children's hospital of Eastern Ontario. I just did the,

the home opener, you know, less than two weeks ago in part with CHEO which is the Children's Hospital of Eastern Ontario, which pay what you can ticket sales go to, supporting CHEO, which is absolutely incredible. the fact that I'm able to do that, is not lost on me in sense like it's not.

It's not selfless. Like I'm, take a great amount of pride in doing that. And of course, like my ego, I'd like to think in a positive way, but of course, like I feel really, really good about myself that I'm able to do this. I use that momentum and that energy to let's go, let's go crush something else. Let's go, let's go not, it's not a challenge to go bigger and better, but it's like, why not? Like let's what's next. What else can I do? That's, that's going to leave an impact and give me that momentum and bring in the karma, bring me back that energy and abundance that

is going to bring back more opportunities on the business side, on the personal side. Let's just keep it rolling and like, and keep just, you know, enjoying life.

Pat Tenneriello (37:05)
Well, I think that's a very honest response because let's face it, giving back, you're doing a good deed. You're helping your community. You're helping those around you who need help, but you're also recognizing that you're getting something out of it yourself in many ways. The way you feel about yourself and potentially also your exposure to how it can help your businesses. Some people sometimes they, when they're

you when they think of altruism, they, they, they don't want to recognize that it's, you know, part of it is, is an ego and that's okay. Right? Like it's, it's okay that it's an ego.

Sean McRae Aka Sean Frost (37:40)
Yeah, there's

nothing, in my opinion, there's nothing wrong with that. As long as you're treating people the proper way and you're conducting yourself, how, you know, as long as I'm conducting myself, how I want to conduct myself and how I'm comfortable in my own shoes, conducting myself, doesn't like, that doesn't matter.

But ultimately, internally, selfish or not, I think it's a positive thing. Like, of course I want to feel good about myself. It's my life. I want to be happy. I want to feel good with everything that I'm doing. Like, there's nothing wrong with that.

Pat Tenneriello (38:10)
How do you stay positive? How do you, how do you keep the energy? like tell me about your, your health, like your, your habits, your day to day. How do you, I'm sure that your habits feed into that, that positive energy that you give off.

Sean McRae Aka Sean Frost (38:25)
I think so. the first and foremost outside of the habits to keep the energy going is the support system. So, I'm very, so fortunate to have the people around me that I have around me. So, you know, of course, starting off with my wife, she, excuse me, she puts up with a lot. I'm a lot at times. I know this, and she's,

Pat Tenneriello (38:45)
In what

way would you say you are a lot?

Sean McRae Aka Sean Frost (38:47)
Because I do I bring up I'm passionate I'm very passionate because I don't if I'm not in if I'm not into it if I'm not passionate about it I don't do it. So that means anything that I'm doing I'm very passionate about and that's a gift and a curse in the sense that there are ups and downs and Also mentioning that I am my my own worst critic like there's it's not even comparable so I can get really down on myself where

it's good that she's there to straighten me out whenever I need it. So that's, you know, a really great thing about our relationship.

Pat Tenneriello (39:20)
Yeah, well, that's a big one. And I get in my own head too. I can be my own worst critic and, and there's nothing noble in a bully, you know, especially, you know, even if that bully is yourself and we can be bullies to ourselves. when you, thanks for admitting that, like, so what do you, it sounds like you have a great support system. Your wife is very supportive. What does that look like that support? How do you.

Sean McRae Aka Sean Frost (39:30)
Yeah.

Pat Tenneriello (39:42)
How do you get out of that when you're in your own head and being really rough on yourself? How does your wife help you with that?

Sean McRae Aka Sean Frost (39:48)
she knows when to push and when not to push, right?

Like my wife, she puts, you know, she gives me the advice that she wants, but she's able to put it in a very, I guess, like non-abrasive way. Whereas I do have people in my life, like other friends that they'll just give it to me, brutally. And sometimes I need that, but I...

Pat Tenneriello (40:03)
Mm-hmm.

Sean McRae Aka Sean Frost (40:06)
I really value that my wife doesn't do that. So from them, it's okay from her, way that she kind of holds me down and, and, it's, it's a really, really good blend. And she's also, she's a saint in terms of patients where, with me, when I'm kind of, I don't want to say spiraling, but when I'm going through something in terms of like, if I'm struggling with something, she'll just give me space and she just knows that she's like, yeah, she knows we've been together long enough. It's like,

Yeah, this, this will pass in a few

The other thing is that, you know, once I'm able to reflect when I'm going through something and it's not a positive thing for me, I use that like it's, if it's a loss, it's cool if it's, but I use it as like, okay, this is another chapter in my story. I'm going to learn from it. I'm also not afraid to celebrate a win. So even if it's something that goes really well for me, I don't need to broadcast it and shout it from the mountain tops, which a lot of people are told to do. I don't need to do that. I can do that internally, but I still feel the same feeling where it's like, okay,

Something good just happened here. I'm not taking that for granted because it sucked yesterday today's incredible I'm celebrating that today's incredible whether it's just going out for dinner You know or just like sitting down and having a coffee and doing anything and it's like Just getting my mind right and being like listen like yesterday was not great today is very great Isn't it so cool that I got to experience yesterday because now today's so much sweeter, you know, I'm

It's just putting all those things in balance and like being aware of like the bad isn't going to be bad forever. The good's not going to be good forever, but why not try to just appreciate both sides? Because at the end of the day, that's, that's kind of what I'm here for. Like I I'm here for it. I don't want it to be amazing every day. Do I want to eliminate stress as much as possible? Of course everybody does, but

I'm making choices that are not going to allow me to do that. And I'm, I'm, that's why I'm making those choices. I'm good with those choices.

Pat Tenneriello (41:58)
I want to go back to some of the topics you brought up in your kind of walking us through your life.

mentioned the word grow up when you said it was time to grow up. So I got a job at the Ottawa hospital. I was wanting to ask you like, what did you mean by that? Because this whole podcast, the theme is growing up and everyone has a different growing up story. Later I'll ask you what that means to you. But what I want to know now is

You know, for me, my growing up story, I liken it to Peter Pan syndrome, right? Not wanting to grow up, you know, living for today, pleasure. You know, we're trying to maximize pleasure, not so much thinking about long-term goals and long-term purpose. Why did you associate the job at the Ottawa hospital to growing up? Because in my mind, like you had already done some really interesting things before that job with the music.

growing up with that job?

Sean McRae Aka Sean Frost (42:51)
Yeah, so I was living fast. I was living a fast life up until that point where, you know, of course, pleasure wise, there was a lot of fun. There was a lot of partying. There was a good deal of violence. There was a good deal of loss.

Pat Tenneriello (43:05)
Violence?

so?

Sean McRae Aka Sean Frost (43:07)
just from, you know, the neighborhoods that I grew up in, obviously working as a music producer in, you know, I was predominantly in the rap game. so I'm, you know, the studio out in Kansas city, not in a great area as well. you know, you're working with people that are all.

Pat Tenneriello (43:11)
Got it.

Sean McRae Aka Sean Frost (43:23)
living a lot of the people are living that life, right and there's a difference from watching it in a documentary or on a music video compared to living it and you know, I was able to I like I said, I saw a lot I experienced a lot and It got to the point where it was like, okay like i'm probably not going to be around

that much longer. I keep living like this, I'm not gonna make it to a certain age. There's absolutely every guarantee that this is not, I can't continue like this. Like there's an expiration date on it. I knew that, I was very conscious of that. And I think when the studio kind of went belly up,

that was kind of the first indication, because it didn't go belly up in the sense that like, it wasn't making money or people decided to just close the door. There was a reason. So that was an indicator from, well, just robbery. Yeah. Just, just, you know, like armed robbery. Yeah.

Pat Tenneriello (44:20)
Do want to share what that was?

Wow. So you were in the rap game

and there was some real violence and, and then you got robbed and you had to shut down shop.

Sean McRae Aka Sean Frost (44:35)
Right, so I was up here. So I don't know the full story because I wasn't there. I flew up to finish my exams. you know, that's where it was. It was kind of an aha moment where it's like, okay, now I'm a university graduate. I'm not doing anything with these degrees, know, English and history. I'm not prepared to go to teachers college right now to specialize with developmentally delayed kids.

Pat Tenneriello (44:40)
Wow.

Sean McRae Aka Sean Frost (44:57)
I'm going to take a year off. I've been in school, obviously from elementary all the way through. I kind of want to figure things out a little bit. And then I thought, okay, well listen, like I'm, renting, like I live in at home type thing and, and renters and stuff. Like I want to, I wouldn't mind like being a homeowner at some point. what's the smartest way to do that? So it's like, okay, well I'm in a government town. Let's let's, let's get a job. What's a stable, secure job that I'm working with people. Cause a nine to five desk job.

Like I can't I I won't be able to do it. It's not I know that right off the bat So i'm not even going to try so I was like, okay. Well health care I can work with patients. My mom worked at the Ottawa hospital So I was like listen, I could apply do some testing see if I can get in and and it'll look good when I I can save some money. It's gonna look good working at the Ottawa hospital Maybe I can buy property or buy a house at some point or a condo like whatever that is I just feel it's the responsible thing to do

moving forward. So let's try that. So that's it.

Pat Tenneriello (45:53)
So that's why you use the grow up. Yeah. So that's kind of like the

transition between that, like you said, the hard and fast life that, of, the music business and then saying, okay, let's take a step back here. Let's think about what, what do I want? Like more long-term being coming a homeowner setting debt, settling down, putting down roots and then thinking more like an adult. Let's put it that way.

Sean McRae Aka Sean Frost (46:17)
Yeah. And being naive, right? Like exactly. It's exactly what you just said, Pat. It's thinking of all of that, but obviously at the same time, really having no clue, but you got to start somewhere. So that was, that was where my mind was. It's like, okay, well like family, you know, at some point dad or husband at some point, dad at some point, homeowner at some point, you know, like not necessarily the dog and white picket fence, but like the things that society tells us, tells us to do, or that's, that's supposed to be achieved.

Those aren't lost on you, right? Like whether you believe it or not, you're still aware of those those those ideas. So it's like this is kind of what I'm doing to build to that. And I also, you know, I don't want to be involved in drugs and I don't want to be involved in violence and I don't want to get killed and I don't want to be incarcerated and like I can't do anything if I'm any of those. So like, you know, I know that I'm bigger than that. So I can't be behind bars and I can't be dead because I can't achieve it. That's not to say anybody that's incarcerated can't achieve anything, but

That's my thought is like, if I'm there, I can't be here doing this.

Pat Tenneriello (47:17)
look, that transition that you're describing, while it, while mine was, my story isn't violent or nearly as spicy as yours in some ways, in some ways it's, it's, it's spicy too, just in other ways, but, it took me a lot longer to flip that switch to adult, to taking a step back, to thinking about

longer term, do I want? Like, like, I don't know how old you were. I was in my thirties when that switch happened. And look, I had a lot of fun, but at some point I was like, this lifestyle just not, it's not working for me anymore. I don't want to do this anymore, but because that's all I knew, it was really hard to do anything else. And I needed help. And, you know, I, went to therapy and I, I, I, I connected with people and I kind of had to dig deep and.

And it was really hard, like for you, that switch, know, you, you had a awakening with something that happened that was kind of, kind of nuts. I want to dig deeper there and I'm digging deeper because a lot of our listeners may be not on the other side of that yet still in that, that rap game. So what, like, what did that look like for you and any advice to listeners who are looking or considering?

that transition.

Sean McRae Aka Sean Frost (48:38)
Yeah, there was just, there was so much going on at the time. wasn't just the studio. It's just a mix of, of everything and across, you know, two, two different countries. So it was, it, had to be a quick switch for me because there were a lot of things that were reaching their expiration date. A lot of things that, you know, I was involved in or associated with, you know, just people that I knew or, know, all types of factors that were kind of coming to a head and

I was fortunate enough to recognize like this is like this, this is it. It's time to, to move on. And, and I had to, like I had to, like it just, I didn't, I wasn't presented really with, there's a choice at the end of the day, but the right decision out of that choice was very, very evident. Like there wasn't.

there was no way I could make the other choice. Cause like it was ridiculous to even think that that way, right? To stay in that lifestyle was like, okay, like I don't want to end up here or end up here. I have to take this choice. Like I have to make this choice again, you still making the choice, but like, like I have a brain. I was like, yeah, I I'm doing this. Like I'm getting out of trouble and I'm, figuring it out. Right? So,

Pat Tenneriello (49:45)
You know, Sean, it's not, it's, was maybe obvious for you, but when I hear about your story, right? you humble upbringing, public housing involved in this, this, this game that was, you know, some people, they don't, they never get out of that. They don't even want to get out of that. it's all they know, you know, so like, it's not evident, you know, you have a good head on your shoulder. said, I gotta get out of this. Like this.

Sean McRae Aka Sean Frost (49:47)
I don't see what's going

Pat Tenneriello (50:11)
maybe it'll kill me or maybe it's just like, I'm going to hit something more rock bottom than where I am now. Like a lot of people, don't pull out of that.

Sean McRae Aka Sean Frost (50:19)
Yeah. And I wasn't, for me, it was never escaping anything. was, it was the, it was the chase. It was the, the adventure to get to being bigger and better. And I don't mean in status or stature. mean that it's the fulfillment thing. It's, like this, I'm getting to a point where like quote unquote grow up. wasn't just because of things that were happening. It's where I was developing and grow and maturing. Right. And I'm like, there's more for me out here. I don't need.

you know, to be going to the club and popping bottles and like having fun and like, that's great. I could still do that if I wanted to. But like now it's like, was, I was maturing enough to, and you know, growing up, was maturing enough to be like, there's something, there's something way bigger out here for me than this. Like this is great, but there's something like, like there's something bigger out there and I could feel it. I just didn't know what it was. and I didn't know how to get there. So that's where the struggle, like, like I said, years of

probably going through a bout of depression and like definitely having some anxiety and like The mental space of the negative mental space when I was in it. I didn't recognize it. I didn't know it I just thought that that's that's This is kind of new. This is what life is and It wasn't until starting to finally finally break through some of those barriers and without knowing it that I was like, like That's probably wasn't healthy or that's not healthy and I didn't think of therapy because I didn't think I was struggling

I didn't understand. I didn't understand that that was not a, that that could be fixed. I didn't think that there was anything wrong. didn't, I didn't recognize that there was anything wrong with me or that I was going through things. I just thought, you know, I'm tough on myself, but I'll make it out to the other side. Like I will. I don't know how long it's going to take, but I'll get there. But then if I knew that hindsight's 2020, if I knew then what I know now, it's like, okay, well I would have done a therapy route. Of course.

Pat Tenneriello (52:07)
What are gone therapy? Did you have coping

mechanisms at that time? Because usually depression, anxiety, you got to cope somehow, right? You got to survive. So typically you find yourself in survival mode. For me, what that looked like, you know, I went, I turned to pot. was, smoked way too much pot for way too long. like a lot of just.

manic dating, were some of my coping mechanisms to get through some of my story. What coping mechanisms did you wrestle with?

Sean McRae Aka Sean Frost (52:37)
I don't think anything in particular because I don't think I like I didn't recognize kind of what was going on. I just thought that it was that was kind of normal to

Again, because like during the day while I was at the at my job at the hospital like I enjoyed it So like getting up and going to work was okay And I think you know, it was just I always associated with the general contracting company That was like I would say that's my albatross, right? Like that's that's what I kind of got I had these issues going on but I thought that they all and and I think they pretty much

they were all kind of based around this general contracting company when that was like that, I guess that was kind of like my, my anchor. Like I created this thing and I associated everything negative and how I was feeling with that business. Cause now yeah. So like,

Pat Tenneriello (53:25)
with the general contractor business. And that's what, okay.

Okay.

Sean McRae Aka Sean Frost (53:28)
like

the depression and this and that I, I just, lumped it in with that. That was my scapegoat. So that's where I could put the blame. Like, man, things would be so much better if I didn't have this. And that's kind of where I swept everything come to think of it. So I would have swept everything to that business. And I think that's why things cleared up so quickly for me is that once I was able to muster the courage to shut down that general contracting,

I left that I left that behind and everything I stored with it was left as well. Like I carry none of that with me moving forward. It literally was like I changed. I was like a changed man. letting that business go because I think that was like my albatross that I attached all the negative, like harboured all that negativity and stuff with.

Pat Tenneriello (54:11)
Yep.

Sean McRae Aka Sean Frost (54:12)
I just allotted everything to the general contracting that was like This is the thing that sucks about my life

Pat Tenneriello (54:17)
the general contracting topic. So yeah, let's get into that a little bit more. So had a really good friend, call him a family member. So like this guy, he's close. And for years you were involved in this business with him and didn't want it. Like it was not doing you any good. And because of that close connection, I'm sure you didn't want to let him down.

Sean McRae Aka Sean Frost (54:22)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Pat Tenneriello (54:39)
I think a lot of people can relate to that feeling, right? Not wanting to let down a loved one. so you kind of push through and then the day that you brought it up to them, like, idiot. Of course, I'm going to support you and I want whatever's best for you in the same way that you want whatever's best for me. But the fact that that dragged on for years, it makes me think of some recent work that I'm doing on myself.

I've gone back to therapy over the last six weeks. And one of the topics that has come up is this idea of people pleasing. And it makes me think that if it took you years, of you might've been wanting to please someone that you'd care for dearly. And it's not easy to, if you're naturally a people pleaser, to kind of step away from that role.

I right? Does that make some sense? I'd love to get your thoughts.

Sean McRae Aka Sean Frost (55:27)
Yeah, one million,

one million percent, Pat. am, am through and through a people pleaser and, one of the, one of the best things that I've been able to, to establish for myself, that's always, always a work in progress as everything is, but was the power of saying no. So, So letting him down was the biggest, the biggest issue out of all of that. And, yeah, I'm still like, I'm a people pleaser. it's, it's just in my nature, but

I'm really working on myself in that sense that the power of saying no, and this is a massive takeaway that I, that I talk about because I'm now in a position and I know that you're not always in a position to do this, but I'm fortunate enough to be in a position and it's a, you know, it can move around how you use it. But if aside from the doctors, dentists, lawyers, if I'm not into something, if I'm not passionate about something,

I don't do it anymore. I'm not. I just say no. I'm, it's taken me a while to do that. I'm like I said, I'm still working on it, but I'm pretty darn good at it. Now, if I'm not into it, I don't do it. And that's from, if something comes across my desk for a next business venture and it looks super lucrative and looks great. If I'm not interested, I don't do it. I don't do something because it's going to make me money. It's not what I'm here for. If it's a social thing and like the guys are going out,

And they're like, let's go for beers. We're going to do this or yada, yada, yada. And I'm like, I'm not feeling it. I'm not doing it. I'm not going just to say I'm going to be there. you're to miss out on something. fill me in later, dude. Like I'm, good. it goes for all of these things across my life. So if I'm not into it, I just say no. And what that's created is it's actually created such a powerful thing for me in my opinion,

It means that when I'm doing something, such as the podcast, such as we're doing right now, if I didn't want to be here, I wouldn't be here. And I want people to know, especially those that are close to me, that if I'm doing something with them right there, right then, there's no place in the world that I'd rather be than be with them doing what we're doing at that time. And I want them to know that I'm not tagging along. I'm not there because I had nothing else to do. I'm doing that.

because I want to be there. And I think that's an important thing. I think there's power in that where people know, man, Sean's here. Like, I don't want, I don't need the red carpet rolled out and like Trumpets going, but I just want people to know that I'm present. I'm there because I want to be there and I appreciate you and I appreciate your time. And, so I do that. That's been my, a big coping mechanism for the people pleasing for me is that

It's nothing personal. It's not, not that I don't like you. It's just, that's how I'm feeling. So if we're talking about connections and relationships and being honest in that regard, I'm not feeling it right now. I'm not doing it.

Pat Tenneriello (58:07)
I love what you said about presence. And if you're able to say no, and by the way, learning to say no is, is, it's so much more important than saying, than saying yes, right? Like, so I work in sales. I've spent my career in sales and I work with startups and startups are hungry for business, you know, because, and what happens is a lot of them.

If they say yes too much, they stretch themselves too thin. then so they need to like develop a little bit over here to make that customer happy and then develop a little bit over here to make that customer happy. And before they know it, they've stretched themselves too thin and they don't have enough resource to actually develop what it is that they, whole thesis for why they started the business in the first place and they disappear. so learning to say no is crucial. what I liked about what you said is that when, if you, if people recognize that in you,

then when you do choose to show up, they know that you're showing up for like a hundred percent of you is showing up. And we all know that friend who's kind of sitting in front of you across the table or you're sitting with a group of people, a friend who's on their phone or they're checked out or they're, they've taken 10 calls and like you've barely had the chance to say hi to them. And, or that you could just tell they're, like, they're, they're there physically, but mentally they're like checked out. It's just not fun. It's just like the quality of that, of that time together.

It's not there. And so I think that is so important, especially in today's world where we got technology, we have so many distractions that can pull us away from being present.

Sean McRae Aka Sean Frost (59:39)
Yeah, totally. I agree with you for sure.

Pat Tenneriello (59:41)
and also it made me think like the fact that it took you a long time to say, to say no with the general contracting, to walk away from that and to potentially let down a close friend. you learned from that, right? Like whether you, it's not like you'd had to take a class. It's not like you had to talk to someone to kind of learn that. Like I, it just, it makes me think that whatever doesn't kill us only makes us stronger. The fact that to have the courage to have that very difficult conversation.

you walked out of, you came out on the other side with that learning, right? And now you're like, I don't want to do it. I say no. I think that's wonderful.

Sean McRae Aka Sean Frost (1:00:18)
Thank you.

I think one, another takeaway that's important to recognize is that, you know, we talked about growing up and, and, know, kind of maturing and making different decisions. That doesn't mean that you're closing necessarily closing doors on things. And I think it's really important because when you move past or move away from something, we often associate that with our, like with our past, right? And like something that's done and that we're like, maybe not going back to, we're like,

a piece of you that's left behind. And I left that, I felt that way for so long that, especially with the music, right? I said like, there was a void, like I felt like there was a void missing in me and that, you know, a big part of me was gone when I kind of moved away from producing. Of course, still a fan and listening to music, but there was something missing. And then it also took me a while to realize that because something didn't work in the past or that you...

moved away from something doesn't mean that you can never go back to something or you can't or or something can't evolve and what I mean by that is you know, my life really took off on a on a financial side from the real estate from being a broker and developing a team and like really you know, really being a go-getter and being relentless in that field but I

you know, was able to, I had a colleague of mine bring me an artist, bring an artist to my attention, know, over five years ago. And, you know, it was, this is how life works. This is the beauty of it all. And he brought this artist to me and now I'm in a position where I can actually bankroll.

I can invest. Just like in investing in other businesses, I can invest in the music industry if I so choose to. And I heard this artist and I was like, man, this kid's got it. Where's he from? He's from Ottawa. I'm like, this kid's from the city that I'm in. They're like, yeah. I'm like, okay. Two questions. What's his character like and does he have a criminal record? Cause he's coming from a similar upbringing that I'm from. Criminal record and what's his character? His character, nice guy. He was basically a kid, but like coming into adulthood.

character solid criminal record. No, because i'm like if I can't get them to the states as well to work then there's no point the market's not big enough here in my opinion to invest in and I don't mean just investing off is fine financially, but time wise right time and effort.

So checked out. So I got back into the music industry that way and started working with this artist. Um, we ended up signing a major record deal, um, in the U S this fall, we went on tour with a massive, an insanely talented artist in polo G who we work with very closely stuck his neck out for us. Um, we went on a, you know, we did one date in Canada, but, um, everything else was across the U S we did like 27 dates.

27 shows in 34 days or something. Two time. T-W-O-T-I-I-M-E. Yeah, so he's out in LA.

Pat Tenneriello (1:03:01)
Wow, what's the artist's name?

We'll have to put

a link to the in the show notes so people can check them out.

Sean McRae Aka Sean Frost (1:03:14)
Yeah, that sounds, that would be amazing. yeah, so, so he's out in LA doing his thing. So obviously the last five years have been such a, such a, a wild ride for me because like now I'm back into it and I feel like I have that piece of me back and it's allowed me to, to take it one step further. I'm working with an artist here in Ottawa, named Justin Diamond. he's just wrapping up his, his, his album right now. And it's, you know, something, a body of work that I'm extremely proud to not only

be part of in the studio and work alongside of in terms of an advisory role, but I'm actually in the studio working and contributing to the album too. So I've got that back and I'm working with a wrestler out of Cleveland. Again, anything that I'm passionate about,

If I'm willing to put the effort in, know that I can do something. I'm kind of living my best life. And aside from the arts, like the music and the wrestling with two time Justin diamond, Josh Bishop is the wrestler. I actually went back to school and I got my, my accreditation. I I got my builder's license. So I'm a, I'm a licensed home builder, custom home builder. and, guess what was only natural to do was to

partner with my that I, course, my brother that I had the general contracting business with. We are partners in our, in our custom home building company. and we build homes and instead of, know, the issues that I was having before with the clients having to bend over backwards. Well, now I'm in a position where we build what we want to build in. I sell it. So we work together on a thousand times better on how we used to, and we've been running this for, you know, five years plus.

And yeah, now we're custom home builders selling million or multimillion dollar properties that we're building. So we've come a long way from renovating a kitchen, getting yelled at from somebody. Now we've taken it 100 steps further. So I have a couple custom home building companies type thing and.

I've got property investment company with like seven, seven of my friends that are mostly from elementary school that we have a bunch of properties and rent them out and, know, have our monthly meetings and we have a good time and that camaraderie and we're building and investing in our futures that way. So, I just think it's important to know, you know, the power of saying no is big, but I think also being aware of that just because you're

you're moving on from something doesn't mean that if you're shutting a door, doesn't mean that it's locked and it can't be open later or can't lead to a path that's kind of along the same lines, but something even, even greater and even, even better. So, I wanted to kind of leave that on this episode as well to let you know that although they were hardships at the time, doesn't mean that they, they, couldn't evolve into something magical down the road.

Pat Tenneriello (1:05:48)
I'm glad you kind of closed the loop on that. That's very impressive and congratulations on your success. It sounds like a lot of fun. These endeavors require an appetite for risk. I got the impression that came more from your dad than your mom. Your mom was more of a people person. Your dad was more of risk taker. your relationship to risk? How are you able to stomach risk? Have there been times where it's been

a little too much risk and you've had a hard time sleeping at night and tell me about that.

Sean McRae Aka Sean Frost (1:06:21)
we're talking about vulnerability. I'm laying it on the table. So risk taking, again, when it's, when it's, when I'm relying on myself, I'm good with it. I'm good with the outcome one way or another, because I know that I'm giving it everything I have to make it work. And if it doesn't work, it's on me, but I know that again, I didn't leave anything on the table. So it's either a wrong decision I made or just, it just didn't work out. Sometimes it just doesn't work out and that's, that's okay.

at the end of day I have myself to hold myself accountable for it So with regards to risk-taking it's betting on myself and and I have to be prepared to accept the fate either way and I think that's where people don't us they always see like what it can lead to on the positive side, but you have to understand where if it goes south where it can lead and

Up until recently, I haven't made the mistake where I bit off more than I can chew and where I have overextended myself. I will be a thousand percent transparent right now at this very moment. I am in a position where I have over leveraged myself. I am in a position where I have too many things going on where I've stretched myself too thin based on other things that I had going on that didn't necessarily work out.

I have to make the difference up. So i'm in a spot right now where i'm not in a a completely financial freedom position based on choices that i've made and i'm okay with because i'm i'm gonna scratch claw and fight my way out which i'm currently doing to get myself out of those positions and again, I made those decisions for each choice that i've made i've made those decisions consciously knowing that

If it goes, if it doesn't work, am I going to be okay? Is it going to suck for a bit or is it going to be challenging to get out of it? Yes. Can I get out of it? Yes. If the answer is no, and this is going to drastically impact my life and my family's life and, and I'm not going to be able to get out of it. Well, then, then, then you can't make, you can't move forward with that choice at that time, right? Like you have to be responsible and make those, those decisions because I'm providing for other humans as well. It's not just about me.

I'm providing for my family. So am I stretched right now? 100%. Is that okay? It is what it is. And yeah, it's okay. Because again, I know I'm betting on myself, I'm going to get through it and I'm getting through it.

once I come out to the other side, I'm going to take a breath. I'm going to pour a drink, maybe a nice little old fashioned and look back on it and be like, damn, that was a roller coaster ride, but like made it through it. What an experience. Absolutely incredible. Sure. It sucked some days while it was, while it was happening, but I was able to experience all these things while it was going through. And like, I had all these life things. It might not have paid off financially in certain situations, but like that life experience or the event that I got out of it.

Like that trumps the money the money because I do have a lot of irons in the fire The money's gonna the money will come I just have to be smart and a little bit more responsible until I'm back Everything's replenished to where it was but I got no shame in saying like yeah, like I've made decisions They're not always gonna work. I'm okay with that. That's that's life man, you know

Pat Tenneriello (1:09:30)
it makes me think of about the outcome. It's really about embracing the journey and it comes back to what we were saying at the beginning because you're at a place now where you've had a lot of successes, but with real estate, for example, you built a team. You could sit back and just coast probably.

you wanted to with your real estate business alone, but how fun would that be? Then you might say, then you're kind of stopping the journey for a bit and you're going to rest at the destination. You've reached the top of a peak, but it's when you're at that destination and you see this in all kinds of movies, the destination will corrupt you because you don't have anything else that you're aiming at.

the destination that corrupts. The fact that you're willing to look up and see the next peak or multiple peaks in your case and then want to keep climbing even though the outcome is uncertain and may not be the one that you want, you're willing to embark on that journey. That in itself takes a lot of courage, but it really means that you're constantly learning, you're constantly growing. That's obvious from

your story and yeah, from what you've shared in this conversation. So I appreciate that.

Sean McRae Aka Sean Frost (1:10:50)
Yeah, thank you. I agree. know, like, uh, yeah, we want to keep growing when we stop growing, you know, a lot of the term, like a lot of people say, you know, when we stop growing, we die and, know, we, we do see that a lot with people that, you know, retire when they quit, when they stop doing whatever they're doing and they lose that sense of purpose, or they're still trying to find out what the next step is. Like there's a lot of situations where, you know, like health can decline or like it's, there's a lot of energies out there and I, it's not.

you know, we're talking about mountain peaks and it's not like I'm always trying to find the next best thing or anything like that, but it's, it's that it's the fuel. It's the ambition that I just want.

I want to keep living life. Like I want to, I don't want to exist. I want to live and I want to, if I'm passionate about something or if I'm interested in something, well, let's go down the rabbit hole and see where it takes it. If it takes us to a hobby, great, or more understanding, great, or a business, great. Like it doesn't, like you said, the outcome doesn't matter. It's the journey. So I want to look back and I'm already so fortunate at the age that I'm at where if I can stop and look back and be like, my God, like I can't believe that this has been my life.

Pat Tenneriello (1:11:59)
My final question, if you don't mind, everyone has their own growing up story. Growing up means something different to everyone. When I say growing up, does that mean to you, Sean?

Sean McRae Aka Sean Frost (1:12:01)
Yeah, of course.

up is, is actually, it is a bit of a Peter Pan effect in the sense that I actually feel, now that I've quote unquote grown up in age, then I'm able to dumb things down, and it just enjoy life more. So I'm able to feel like a kid again in a lot more situations than I thought that I would have.

back when I thought it was time to quote unquote grow up, if that makes sense. So now I'm in a spot where I appreciate things a lot more or not that I didn't then, but I'm, more conscious of them. So I feel like a kid in a lot of situations and I'm super blessed in the fact that my biggest achievement and the greatest thing that I have in my life bar none is being a dad. I have an eight year old, right? Like we've, we've got kids. I've got an eight year old that I'm absolutely obsessed with. He's my best friend. We

I position myself with all these jobs that I'm able to drop like take him to school every day pick him up at school every day Hang out most evenings before he goes to bed from the time he goes like comes home from school to the time he goes to bed every day and spend weekends together so we spend in a crazy amount of time together my biggest achievement by far and That's the part of growing up that I really love is that I get to be a kid with him And enjoy all these experiences and I'm so proud of myself

in that sense that I've been able to build something that I'm, a lot of the luxuries and the ability to be able to live that kind of life. That's the growing up for me is like actually getting younger and feeling younger is like I've grown up to be a person that I'm really proud of and appreciative of the life that I have, especially with my son.

Pat Tenneriello (1:13:42)
Great. Yeah, really interesting answer around being able to play the sense of play, sense of fun, feeling like a kid. I think a lot of people would love that feeling and aspire to that. I certainly aspire to that. So thank you for that answer. Sean, thank you so much for taking the time to be on the podcast today. I really enjoyed our conversation.

and I would love to stay in touch with you and to have you on again in the future.

Sean McRae Aka Sean Frost (1:14:08)
course, Pat, really, really great meeting you and thanks for obviously making the opportunity for us to connect.

Pat Tenneriello (1:14:13)
Well, that's a wrap on this episode of the After Peter Pan podcast. If you found it insightful, please drop us a rating or give us a like. It really helps to widen our audience. Thank you again for tuning in and I'll see you in a few weeks. Bye bye.


People on this episode

Head Shot

Pat Tenneriello

Host
Head Shot

Sean McRae aka Sean Frost

Guest

Podcasts we love

Check out these other fine podcasts recommended by us, not an algorithm.

Modern Wisdom Artwork

Modern Wisdom

Chris Williamson
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast Artwork

The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast

Dr. Jordan B. Peterson